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V Language Review

mawfig.github.io

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Re: V Language Review

#301

Post by amedvednikov »

kristoff_it wrote: post #285
Tozen wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The V language pattern matches with new programming language initiatives such as Odin or Zig. It is in the category of both C and Go alternatives. Note- just by being a strong Go alternative by itself, one can see possible "behind the scenes" conflicts and motives. Though both V and Odin really should be fully embraced, because they continue the direction and changes in thinking started by Go, while providing feature…

You must come from an alternative reality because all that V achieved in terms of popularity is a big initial uptick of GitHub stars and donations obtained thanks to straight-up, no-discussion, clear-as-sky false advertising. When it comes to sponsors and donations, V is far (really far) from the best in the category. Not to mention that Zig has a proper non-profit foundation, which is a far greater achievement than…

A conspiracy theory is claiming that a competitor's compiler has a dependency on an OpenGL context creation library.

And it's laughable to claim that its popularity on launch was due to false advertising. Even your leader admitted that self hosting on launch is impressive:

> Wow, that's incredibly fast. Self-hosted in 2 weeks? Hot code reloading? This is everything I plan to do with Zig, but apparently done already. How did you do it so quickly?

(I hope you won't argue that V wasn't written in V on release.)

Funny how the agenda changed.

Re: V Language Review

#302

Post by [deleted] »

delian66 wrote: post #126
preseinger wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wants a "Rust but better" language to exist, and that very well might be V in 5 years . . . How can anyone possibly believe this?? What is the motivation?? V is a `README` full of desires, and a source tree full of incompetence. There is no concrete or technical evidence that can support this optimism. Zig is a serious project. Go is a serious project. Rust is a serious project. V is, obviously, an un-serious proje…

I assure you, that V is a very serious project, and its README is not full of desires, whatever that means. As for the source tree full of incompetence - that may be so, if you can help, you are welcome to make PRs to improve it. As incompetently written as it is, it is capable of compiling itself, and quickly, unlike some others.

[deleted]

Re: V Language Review

#303

Post by vlang1dot0 »

amedvednikov wrote: post #299
vlang1dot0 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that "one line" fix in the type checker coming? Looks like it wasn't fixed yesterday.

It was fixed, but you keep fighting your fight. I'm sure there's another bug you can find to spread the "V is scam" message.

You only merged it one hour ago.

https://github.com/vlang/v/pull/14805

Over promising (hardly a one line patch) and under delivering (well beyond your "it will be fixed today" statement) as usual.

Re: V Language Review

#304

Post by [deleted] »

rurban wrote: post #250
thayne wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know of a case where rust code violates memory safety without the use of an unsafe block, file a bug and it will probably be fixed within a release or two. "Fearless concurrency" is more subjective, but rust code (again with the caveat that there isn't unsafe code, or unsafe cose upholds all unvariants) dows eliminate certain classes of concurrency bugs. Although, dreadlocks are definitely possible, and certai…

do you your self a favor and search their ticket system for stack overflow. the list gets longer, not smaller. and looking at their compiler it's clear why. stack-allocation of vars is fine and dandy, but comparable to vlang's famous unbounded autofree system. alloca() is dangerous for a reason. unsafe vec, really?? mutexes in threads, really?? concurrent blocking IO in this decade?? also read their docs about their…

[deleted]

Re: V Language Review

#305

Post by delian66 »

super_flanker wrote: post #259
delian66 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually compile the V compiler with -autofree. The resulting executable however does segfault - try it with: ./v -autofree -o x cmd/v ./x version You seem to talk a lot about things, that you are not well informed about.

> The resulting executable however does segfault Doesn't give lot of confidence that it works, does it? > You seem to talk a lot about things, that you are not well informed about. Unlucky for you, it's not discord, you can't ban me here. So freaking deal with it.

I have never banned people on any platform.

Letting them speak and reveal how vile they are is better in my experience.

Re: V Language Review

#306

Post by ModernMech »

amedvednikov wrote: post #298
tene wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misunderstood my intent. In "I checked several notable claims, and most of them are false", I was trying to say that most of the notable claims that the author decided to check were false. This is very different from saying most of the statements on the website are false, which would be a completely absurd accusation, as you correctly point out. The summary section is literally a list of specific claims and th…

> every time you're setting an array length in V, any mistake will not be caught by the compiler What mistake? Does this apply to literally every other language, like Go with its `make([]int, len)`. > If you think it's fine for V documentation and advocacy to overstate their case and not mention significant gaps in what they claim the language has Can you link to such examples in V documentation?

Tene’s post is the most reasonable and valuable feedback you’ve gotten in this entire thread. Your reply should have been one of thanks and appreciation, not confrontational and argumentative.

Honestly, from the outside reading this thread you probably shouldn’t have come here in the first place. I get you want to defend your language, but there’s a fine line between defending your creation and being argumentative with people who don’t actually mean you harm, and who aren’t trying to take you down.

Your posts here are very defensive, and your tone is argumentative to the point when someone gave you accurate info about using tcc, you refused to believe it and argued about it for several posts. Just listen instead of arguing.

Look, I get you want to defend your creation. But my advice from one lang dev to another is stop posting on hn, and do what you’re good at by working on making your claims about your language bulletproof instead. People have been giving you this advice since you started V years ago but you haven’t taken it. Let V speak for itself. Stop arguing with people on the internet.

Re: V Language Review

#307

Post by ModernMech »

Tozen wrote: post #273
klyrs wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA has plenty. Don't let yourself get mired in fights on the orange site. Instead, spend the energy fixing bugs and you'll meet less criticism in the future.

I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors. Additionally, the OP has ran away from engaging in debate about various errors and opinions from their review, in an apparent attempt to leave an arguably underhanded one-sided negative impression (which includes suggesting not to use). So we have a situation where the OP created a hit piece with…

> I think that V developers and contributors are well within their rights to address criticisms of their work by detractors.

Indeed you are, but realize that you are also ambassadors for your language, and engaging in petty language war nonsense on public forums doesn’t leave anyone looking great. That’s a problem for V moreso than your detractors, because you are the ones building a reputation for yourselves, while your detractors are relatively anonymous and fungible. They can act anyway they want and it won’t follow them around.

On the other hand, everything said here by Vlangers will stick to V and will be brought up on the next thread. You don’t want the reputation of being fanboys who will descend on any thread about V and zealously argue about it for days. But that’s the reputation you’re building here, and it has nothing to do with the behavior or actions of anyone else. That’s something you are actively choosing to do, and it doesn’t make you or your community look good.

Again, no one looks great in threads like these, but most people here aren’t building a reputation. V is building a reputation. What do the posts by Vlangers here say about V? It’s not exactly a shining advertisement for your community.

Re: V Language Review

#308

Post by burntsushi »

Tozen wrote: post #295
kristoff_it wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must come from an alternative reality because all that V achieved in terms of popularity is a big initial uptick of GitHub stars and donations obtained thanks to straight-up, no-discussion, clear-as-sky false advertising. When it comes to sponsors and donations, V is far (really far) from the best in the category. Not to mention that Zig has a proper non-profit foundation, which is a far greater achievement than…

Says a competitor from the Zig software foundation, as if you wouldn't have any ulterior motives, to include a clearly divergent reality. If anything, I suppose the urge was too great, to not expose yourself.

I'm not in the ZSF, although I do throw $50 a month to them, even though I don't use Zig. I use Rust a lot personally. I just like what Zig is doing. They haven't achieved all of their goals yet---just like V hasn't---but I look forward to when they do. And they've already produced some awesome stuff. While there are many differences between Zig and V, one of the most important ones is that Zig doesn't falsely advertise. If they did, I wouldn't contribute a single cent to them.

I totally agree with kristoff here and also munificent[1]. Y'all have a massive victim complex on grand display in this thread and exhibit the classical signs of projecting your own issues on to everyone else.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31795322

Re: V Language Review

#309

Post by Tozen »

burntsushi wrote: post #308
Tozen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says a competitor from the Zig software foundation, as if you wouldn't have any ulterior motives, to include a clearly divergent reality. If anything, I suppose the urge was too great, to not expose yourself.

I'm not in the ZSF, although I do throw $50 a month to them, even though I don't use Zig. I use Rust a lot personally. I just like what Zig is doing. They haven't achieved all of their goals yet---just like V hasn't---but I look forward to when they do. And they've already produced some awesome stuff. While there are many differences between Zig and V, one of the most important ones is that Zig doesn't falsely advert…

The V community does not create these continuous attack threads or blogs (which is very obvious when reading them), nor told competitors or detractors to come join in on these underhanded attacks.

The "projection", is coming from yourself. That you are a supporter of Zig and Rust, is your own business, that's not the focus of this thread or what my comments are about. But clearly you couldn't help yourself to come do some bashing of a rival language, then gaslight about why there might be a reaction to it.

Re: V Language Review

#310

Post by burntsushi »

Tozen wrote: post #309
burntsushi wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in the ZSF, although I do throw $50 a month to them, even though I don't use Zig. I use Rust a lot personally. I just like what Zig is doing. They haven't achieved all of their goals yet---just like V hasn't---but I look forward to when they do. And they've already produced some awesome stuff. While there are many differences between Zig and V, one of the most important ones is that Zig doesn't falsely advert…

The V community does not create these continuous attack threads or blogs (which is very obvious when reading them), nor told competitors or detractors to come join in on these underhanded attacks. The "projection", is coming from yourself. That you are a supporter of Zig and Rust, is your own business, that's not the focus of this thread or what my comments are about. But clearly you couldn't help yourself to come do…

The OP isn't an attack. That's the victim complex I'm talking about. It's a standard experience report.
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