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Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

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Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#301
post #292
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You eventually have to pay it when you cash out (or buy service, goods with crypto). If you wait you loose tax returns for the amount you invested in crypto (with each year you have it halved). Basically this is the same as in case of stock market. You don't pay taxes until you sell stock. And here stock is whole crypto market.

I buy 100 USDC. I use these to buy some crypto-currency. 6 months later, I sell the crypto-currency for USDC, making a 10% profit. I sell the USDC for USD. Notice that I have made no profit from the sale of USDC, which is (supposedly) the only taxable event in this series of transactions. I bought 110 USDC worth $1 each, and sold 110 USDC worth $1 each. And I don't even have to sell the USDC for USD, I can buy stuff…

That's not how capital gains works.

> I use these to buy some crypto-currency. 6 months later, I sell the crypto-currency for USDC, making a 10% profit. I

In every tax jurisdiction I know of in the world, this is a taxable transaction.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The powers that be aren't trying to crash it all on purpose, nobody wants another 2008. They have produced a pretty hands-off response, because of a number of factors. Crypto has an explicit project to escape US regulation, so lots of money is in e.g. the Bahamas and difficult to target. Many companies are trying really hard to avoid even having US customers, so that's a hands-off win for regulation as the feds have…

Wouldn't regulating crypto need an influx of dollars from the exchanges or other liquidity providers back into the government? If that money doesn't exist or is hidden well enough regulation is only going to crash down liquidity providers and screw this people you are saying it should be designed to help. The US is already very much ahead of most countries in regulating but not outright banning crypto. It's closer to…

A lot of what people are talking about is the 90% of securities regulation that lives in the information space, regulating what must be disclosed when & to whom, and ensuring people are not deceived en masse by those running an enterprise on their behalf. 2008 was largely one of these crises -- there was fraud in the creation and marketing of mortgage-backed securities, about what was in them and what the risks were. If you have enough of those, and enough big institutions dressing up these terrible securities in even more incomprehensible instruments, big ribbons & glossy materials, and marketing them to retail, then the original fraud is compounded in effect and more and more people start being exposed to it. Imagine there are 200 active Ponzi schemes and you sell a financial product offering 10-20% returns against a background Fed cash rate of effectively zero, and you manage to keep it up by investing in Ponzi after Ponzi, reaping the yield they give and propping them up with VC money when they teeter. If enough of them fail, so do you.

If you think that sounds a lot like 2008, well, yes it is. Fortunately this time it's not gone even close to under the radar. Remember 2008 was built on a much safer financial product. Like, there were a lot of good mortgages in America, and for a while there was a healthy market for packaging them up in bonds, it just turned very sour when the bad mortgages started making up the bulk of new bonds issued to meet huge demand and more was wrung from the sponge in derivative products at the same time. The idea of a collapse was unheard-of; the market had quietly undergone huge changes with only a dozen or something people worldwide really taking notice. We're in here with a thread every few days on HN talking about the possibility of a 2008. That's a difference.

Some of the discussion of crypto regulation is more about the "prudential" side i.e. talking about some crypto entities as if they're deposit-taking institutions (like retail aka commercial banks). That's quite recent, I think it's what you're referring to by "influx of dollars ... back into government" i.e. getting them on the Federal Reserve system, getting deposit insurance, and having to be so heavily scrutinised any crypto CEO would have a heart attack in the first 20 minutes. In 2008, some commercial banks got too far into mortgage securities, failed and got bailed out. Some commercial banks doing deposits & loans got bailed out, and some even got nationalised. That protection mostly just worked as planned. Given the fact of bailouts, the risk of bailouts had to be readjusted, of course, so the new laws were about what commercial banks couldn't invest in. Lehmann was of course an investment bank. The main message is that the root causes of the crisis were not perpetrated by commercial banks, so all the new regulation around them was about trimming the risk of bad securities turning into systemic meltdowns. That's a relevant thing to worry about today but note that actual banks are pretty well protected and not really allowed to freewheel like some did in 2008. If your normal bank is investing your deposits in crypto, I would be surprised.

People worry about Coinbase because it's seen as a kind of commercial bank but not regulated as one, so it (1) gets to freewheel on investments & capital requirements like no other commercial bank in the country, and (2) has no deposit protection for those who use it. So risky twice over. Frankly I don't think Coinbase could survive with its current business model as a regulated bank, same way Uber wouldn't survive if it were forced to compete without favour & VC dried up, so forcing Coinbase to to be might trigger the very collapse being protected against (by stopping it investing in all the schemes that make it money, killing those schemes and causing knock-on), and look kinda bad. It's a tricky one. Maybe if there's enough securities enforcement against the things that are keeping the party going, the fraudulent portions can gracefully collapse on their own and the government won't have to cop the blame for bringing on the death of a pretty popular industry by prudential regulation.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#303
post #199
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mostly - there's efficiency to be had and red tape to cut and Open Banking has been working on this steadily in many countries.

Can you show me any tangible results of open banking? I used to work in the space and it was a shitshow of bureaucracy that never went anywhere. Ethereum IS ALREADY an ecosystem of programmable money APIs, and it works TODAY.

Works is an interesting choice of word. https://twitter.com/qrs/status/1395784294451265536

> Smart contracts should be considered self-funded bug-bounty platforms.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#304
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way, unless they are fully backed by USD... stablecoin is just an unregulated bank and it can run. If that's not the case, they have as much rope as they have ability to liquidate. IE they can keep buying their own coin to defend the price for as long as they can. Imo, stablecoins are a good example of everyone knowing the score but systemic risk accrues regardless. Stabkecoins just the worst kind of risk. Low…

Properly unregulated banks are actually less likely to experience runs. Backing by USD is not required. As you say, anything they can liquidate is good. Doesn't have to be USD. This works best when you are over-capitalised, ie when you have a thick equity cushion, so that when your assets go down in terms of USD, you still have enough balance sheet assets left to cover all your USD obligations. You are right that try…

Being stable just gives it a certain risk profile: regular profits, with a chance of occasional apocalypse. Modest, of course, relative to the sum "under management." Two-and-twenty. The kind of game we've been known to lose.

I don't think it really matters what the underlying assets are. Once the bank runs, it'll probably run dry. "Equity cushions" don't work. The banks own shares suck as a hedge against a run. Assets do hedge against a run. But, once a run is truly happening... it's unlikely to stop. Eventually reserves run out. Assets, credit, etc. I don't buy the idea of assets "calming" a run. In a collapse, the assets are only good as a currency to literally pay out exiting holders.

That said, it's possible to keep the game going a long time. Decades even, depending on the levels of greed and luck.

Stablecoins are still new. The derivatives death star is still not fully operational.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#305
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy 100 USDC. I use these to buy some crypto-currency. 6 months later, I sell the crypto-currency for USDC, making a 10% profit. I sell the USDC for USD. Notice that I have made no profit from the sale of USDC, which is (supposedly) the only taxable event in this series of transactions. I bought 110 USDC worth $1 each, and sold 110 USDC worth $1 each. And I don't even have to sell the USDC for USD, I can buy stuff…

That's not how capital gains works. > I use these to buy some crypto-currency. 6 months later, I sell the crypto-currency for USDC, making a 10% profit. I In every tax jurisdiction I know of in the world, this is a taxable transaction.

Of course, it is, but they are arguing that it's not a taxable event, in some jurisdictions.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#306
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means selling the asset, full stop.

> It means selling the asset, full stop So it seems from the outside that stablecoins exist primarily to take advantage of grey areas in taxation legislation - and possibly also KYC/AML legislation - which allow investors in certain jurisdictions to avoid taxable events which would otherwise occur when trading. Building a business model on dodging taxes isn't a great look, is it?

We also have umbrella investment funds doing the same thing but without crypto.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#307
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has now mandated fast transfers between banks in the EU. So, for EU (23 countries) it's not a problem either. Sending money between banks is both a technical and a regulatory issue (and crypto is discovering why regulations exist at great cost to crypto users). However, "instant money transfer between banks" is not an unsolved issue.

large (> 10K) bank and wire transfers within UK and EU are still in the order of days, not seconds. the last large bank transfer I did took 5 days without any way for me to track this transfer. the same amount I was able to transfer within crypto networks in 30 seconds and the transaction progress and it’s validation status was visible for the entire duration. the EU and UK banking system is far better than the US bu…

No idea which bank you used where a payment took 5 days (are you American?). I made a high five figure payment online when buying a property and it was in the destination account the next day.

Crypto bros really have to drop the idea that it's going mainstream by allowing people to transfer money. Crypto is NOT easier or safer for anyone than a faster payment in the EU/UK. Unless you are doing something illegal.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#308
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how capital gains works. > I use these to buy some crypto-currency. 6 months later, I sell the crypto-currency for USDC, making a 10% profit. I In every tax jurisdiction I know of in the world, this is a taxable transaction.

Of course, it is, but they are arguing that it's not a taxable event, in some jurisdictions.

What jurisdictions are they?

edit: I see you're asking the same question as me! Sorry!

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#309
post #284
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is true, it simply means your tax code has a giant loophole that allows people avoid paying tax on capital gains by simply swapping an asset for another.

Why? You eventually have to pay it when you cash out (or buy service, goods with crypto). If you wait you loose tax returns for the amount you invested in crypto (with each year you have it halved). Basically this is the same as in case of stock market. You don't pay taxes until you sell stock. And here stock is whole crypto market.

> You don't pay taxes until you sell stock. And here stock is whole crypto market.

No, each coin is equivalent to a stock. A transaction involving swapping one coin to another is a taxable event in every country I'm aware of.

Re: Top stablecoins shed $7B in May as traders redeem tokens en masse

#310
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me why you should be able to send money to your friend in Macedonia from Australia without transaction fees?

Because we can send emails from Australia to Macedonia for free. I think the point they're trying to make is the current (lack of?) Global financial system is a joke. Crypto is enabling something that has the value and utility of "money" with interconnectedness and simplicity of the Internet. How does that not click in ppls minds? For the 7Billion ppl on earth, easy low fee international money transfers are a joke. A…

It doesn't click in peoples minds because it is not simple. It is patently more complex than Visa or Mastercard. If there really was the "simplicity of the Internet" then a system better than Visa or Mastercard or logging on to your bank and sending money would have appeared in the last 12 years.

Secondly, no government is giving up control of their economy to Crypto miners and the "global financial system". It will not happen, it will be regulated until it is controlled (a state owned coin effectively). I certainly don't want anonymous miners or the whims of Crypto casino controlling the economy in the country i live.

At least with the current system I can vote for a government that has control of it's economic policy, even if that vote has minimal effect. Some control is better than none.

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