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IBM's Asshole Test

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Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#301

Post by johnnyanmac »

metadat wrote: post #168
eropple wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but for my money, a company that does that isn't a company to work for. I don't work for free and you shouldn't either.

Honest question: What difference does it make whether you work on a l33tcode question or a real problem in the interview? At least the real problem has a chance of being interesting. Sometimes I do give candidates examples of real challenges we're facing. The purpose is not to get anything for free, but rather to see if they're good at coming up with new ideas. It also gets boring asking the same questions that may o…

I wouldn't say you are, but some people have been burned by the concept of spec work that employed tricks like this to basically get free brainstorming. In other industries like art it's especially egregious.

It's a real shame in tech with its (past and present) history of open source work and contributions that can be interpreted as such, especially with many projects nowadays being maintained by billion dollar coporations that can certainly pay a candidate for contributions. But that's a huge beast to tackle.

follow up note: I'm not sure if this[0] comment is parody or unironic, but situations like this are exactly what gives the idea such a bad reputation.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31265554#31266239

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#302

Post by glandium »

krono wrote: post #96
f0e4c2f7 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story strikes me as pretty funny. As if he might say "damn, I was hoping you knew. We've been working on this one for weeks!"

Near the beginning of a class, Professor Neyman wrote two problems on the blackboard. Dantzig arrived late and assumed that they were a homework assignment. According to Dantzig, they "seemed to be a little harder than usual", but a few days later he handed in completed solutions for both problems, still believing that they were an assignment that was overdue. Six weeks later, an excited Neyman eagerly told him that…

  Over time, some facts were altered, but the basic story persisted in the form of an urban legend and as an introductory scene in the movie Good Will Hunting.
Aha, I thought this sounded familiar...

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#303

Post by _moof »

metadat wrote: post #162
Bahamut wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of airline companies doing similar when interviewing flight attendants - United will fly you to Newark to interview, but often there will be people shadowing candidates to see how they behave during their travels and that feedback is taken into account when evaluating candidates.

It's impressive if they have the resources and sophistication to really execute on this.

It's really nothing - just a different fare code. Gate agents and cabin crew can already tell when someone is a non-rev (e.g. an employee using flight benefits), so looping them in on the backend is just a quick schedule lookup and a couple more people on the feedback system. (N.B.: I'm not saying this actually happens, because I don't know; just that it would be very little trouble using systems that are already in place. I, for one, didn't change out of my suit until after I'd gotten back home when I did an airline interview.)

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#304

Post by ldoughty »

pmcollins wrote: post #292
influx wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, compare the employees of United vs Southwest and there's a huge difference in attitude. Southwest employees seem happy, friendly, helpful, while United... Not.

funny because i’ve heard of a very similar anecdote to this one but at southwest airlines.

And I'm sitting here wondering how people have bad interactions with flight attendants? Literally 90% of the words I say to them are:

Hello, how are you. Thank you. Yes, water please. Have a good day.

I think I asked once for a pillow (usually on Redeyes they hand them out)

I've never had a fight attendant decline my request, or complain about it...

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#305

Post by DFHippie »

Taniwha wrote: post #278
badkitty wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the really nasty thing about retail: the angrier and more abusive you are, you'll likely get your way. And much of the time, "your way" is being made whole with the situation. Ive worked retail for quite some time but broke out into IT. But the abuse is expected in retail. Managers are paid minimally more to deal with it - and that's to prevent customer complaints to corporate. Pretty much everyone, at some ti…

depends on where you live - growing up in New Zealand we don't have a tipping culture, servers will get to you, in your turn, try and demand service and you're cutting against a cultural grain, perceived to be trying to claim you're better, more important, than the other customers, or the server. I read somewhere that our "obnoxious American tourist" stereotype came from some time in the 60s when rich tourists starte…

Some time ago I spent a lot of time in youth hostels. A pattern I noticed was that people from all different cultures were polite and considerate until the number of people in the immediate group whom they considered allies in some way crossed some threshold at which point they became jerks, disregarding rules and politeness and generally acting as though they were the only real people there. I was in Europe, so most of the large groups were also European, but I at least saw German, Spanish, and French groups behaving this way. I met many Australians, but they were always traveling singly or in pairs and always stayed polite as far as I could see. I also have a vivid memory of Americans on a train in southern Germany voicing their opinions loudly and rudely about homes they saw passing by outside the train windows. It was just three or four Americans, but the arrangement of people on the train gave them a local majority.

I suspect it is this dynamic more than tipping culture that gave rise to the stereotype of the ugly American. In small numbers people in foreign lands try to stay quiet and unseen. In larger numbers they feel safe and, maybe because they feel free from consequence or maybe as a stress reaction, they become worse than their normal selves. It isn't just Americans. But for a period in the last century Americans were the folks with sufficient money to show up in other people's countries in tour groups.

Also, the people who create the stereotype are the ones who are noticed. If there are lots of foreigners blending in and a group of them who don't, it's the ones who don't who create the reputation for the rest.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#306

Post by d110af5ccf »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #263
skissane wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worry that this might unintentionally discriminate against culturally diverse candidates. Standards of politeness can vary between cultures (and even subcultures), and a person might behave in a way which is perceived as polite in their (sub)culture but as impolite in the culture of the service worker; an "asshole" could turn out to just be a cultural misunderstanding. Particularly if the candidate is from a minori…

I think this is a fair and nuanced comment. However, you seem to be stating (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are really two categories of situations here - situation A, where someone is an Asshole with a capital A, and situation B where you have a neurodiverse or immigrant candidate that is misinterpreting the situation and should not be dismissed based on their behavior. I can easily agree that both situations a…

> Is there an easy and objective way to tell the difference?

Better question, does it matter? As you said, bad hires are expensive. We aren't talking about language barriers here, we're talking about behavior that comes across as (your words) capital A asshole. If the person is going to behave that way on the job and it drags the team down, does it matter why they behave that way? I know I wouldn't want to be stuck working with them.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#307

Post by KerrAvon »

influx wrote: post #238
sargun wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strong part of me believes that United indexes on how much of an asshole the person can be. /s. But, seriously, I feel like if you're using a potential employer's services, you should assume they're taking that into account when they're hiring you.

Seriously, compare the employees of United vs Southwest and there's a huge difference in attitude. Southwest employees seem happy, friendly, helpful, while United... Not.

Pretty uniformly the same experience for me with Southwest (pre-pandemic). I'd sometimes prefer to fly Southwest over other airlines even for longer flights. Consistently decent people; surprisingly so, since you'd assume cheaper flights would bring more difficult customers. But maybe I never flew the cheaper routes.

If I had very young children, or needed special accommodations, I might have a different opinion. The SWA preboarding process doesn't seem very generous.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#308

Post by DFHippie »

bee_rider wrote: post #218
Melatonic wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally apply a similar test when dating - if the person is a huge asshole to the service staff then it generally is not going anywhere

Sorry, unless you tell them you are testing their dateablilty you have to ignore any behavior on their part.

This needs a "/s".

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#309

Post by johnnyanmac »

slg wrote: post #250
TameAntelope wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, I definitely want to filter out people who can't handle situations like this, because honestly they come up all the time. Uncertainty in ownership, data not matching up, clarity lacking; how people behave in these scenarios is basically how they'll behave at their job. I don't think it's an "asshole" behavior to induce stress during an interview and observe results. What else are you supposed to do?

It isn't just inducing stress that tells me they are an asshole. Interviews are inherently stressful, there is little need to intentionally add extra stress on top. The dishonesty is also a problem. Interviews are a two-way street. The first impression this gives candidates is that their employer will think nothing of lying to their face and employees will so regularly be under stress that handling stress well is one…

It's a tricky problem because of the observer effect. You can't just say to candidates "we're testing your behavioral approach to problem solving" because then candidates will simply realize the goal is "don't go ballistic for an hour", despite perhaps revealing their true character once they are on the payroll.

At least in this environment you know you are being observed. Different from a company finding some embarrasing social media post in a bad time of your life.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#310

Post by KerrAvon »

ldoughty wrote: post #304
pmcollins wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

funny because i’ve heard of a very similar anecdote to this one but at southwest airlines.

And I'm sitting here wondering how people have bad interactions with flight attendants? Literally 90% of the words I say to them are: Hello, how are you. Thank you. Yes, water please. Have a good day. I think I asked once for a pillow (usually on Redeyes they hand them out) I've never had a fight attendant decline my request, or complain about it...

People sometimes have nonstandard needs, or get sick, or need to deal with another passenger's overly aggressive behavior. It's more about how the flight attendants react to those situations than to standard service.
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