Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#301

Post by petesergeant » Mon, May 02, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

cja wrote: post #268

petesergeant wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances They're controlled susbtances in the US too, but there appear to be a whole slew of sites in the US where you can fill out a form and they'll send you a perfectly legit scrip > There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. For anyone reading this who thinks they might need treatment a…

Link please because I've looked and can't find

for the UK, I found www.adhdcentre.co.uk which wants £895 for an online ADHD consultation, and the next appt is 7am tomorrow

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#302

Post by hirvi74 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #229

hirvi74 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is a physical condition It sure is not handled like one. If that is the case, then I find it odd that most people get treated by psychiatrist and not neurologist. Also, why are fMRI and other neurological scans not used to diagnosis the illness? It seems to be merely symptom based diagnostics coupled with psychological evaluations. (I am not saying there are not structural neurological differences.)

Isn't that just because they're expensive and we don't know how to do it well enough?

Expensive for the patient, the hospital, or both?

In my experience, I had an fMRI a year or so ago, and it was cheaper than the psychological evaluations I had to do almost a decade ago, fwiw. But that is just my anecdote. I am sure different health care systems, different counties, etc. impact this significantly.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#303

Post by astrange » Mon, May 02, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #290

astrange wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personality disorders aren't physical conditions anymore than the number 2 is a physical object. They're maladaptive learned behaviors.

Maladaptive learned behaviors change the physical structure of the brain.

That's like calling a malware infection a damaged hard drive. The way to fix them is at the same conceptual level you learned them from; we don't have offline brain editing tech.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#304

Post by gfody » Mon, May 02, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

kanbara wrote: post #218

gfody wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wondering what your true potential looks like since adhd is treated with amphetamine which is essentially a performance enhancing drug that boosts your focus/awareness/intensity. it's probably dangerous to think of your medicated self's potential as being truer than your natural self's. seems like a trap.

and depression is treated with anti-depressants which change your mood therefore you are not your true self? what a load of bs lol. people can _choose_ if they want medication, how they feel on it, and what it helps them with. and it helps millions of people have normal productive lives without fear of inadequacy or ruin because of dysfunction or cognitive issues. it's great if you or others don't believe in medicati…

> humanity has coped with drugs that affect performance for millennia

the tendency to treat disorders with (often life-long) amphetamines and ssris is a relatively recent development. obviously it's your choice to ween or risk it (unless you're restrained in a facility) and it's not bullshit to advise caution generally but especially to anyone seeking "true potential" vs "normal life without suffering"

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#305

Post by di4na » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #285

di4na wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone still struggling to get an appointment just to possibly validate a diagnosis but with all these symptoms. Thank you. I may not have adhd but at least it gives hope.

I know I'm telling you what you likely already know. But please please please please try to make the appointment. The only reason I was able to was because I created some sense of urgency to do it. Maybe have a friend that you make yourself accountable to? Tell them you owe them money if you don't make an appointment before X date and then more money if you don't go to the appointment? If you need someone to talk tho…

Thanks, but i did multiple :) It is just that they tend to take a few months of waiting list each time, to hear at the end "yeah you may have it, but i do not do adults".

It is not taking the first appt the problem, it is continuing despite the system spiting in your face.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#306

Post by saaaaaam » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

cja wrote: post #268

petesergeant wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances They're controlled susbtances in the US too, but there appear to be a whole slew of sites in the US where you can fill out a form and they'll send you a perfectly legit scrip > There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. For anyone reading this who thinks they might need treatment a…

Link please because I've looked and can't find

The Effra Clinic is excellent. https://effraclinic.co.uk

I used them after struggling for a long time trying to get diagnosed via the NHS (“you’re a successful young man! You can’t have ADHD!”) and have recommended them to several people.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#307

Post by dang » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:29 PM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #29

GavinMcG wrote: post #16

The author really does not do a great job, here, at least in saying something sensible as a response to DeBoer's piece. The core premise seems to be that: > I find it so very irritating that there is no term for my so-called ⸢attention deficit disorder⸣ that does not have the word “disorder” baked into it. I know what a disorder is, and this isn't one. But the author then argues against a strawman: > Why does any dev…

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent d…

Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack. That's always important, but especially when the topic is as sensitive and emotional as this. Certainly you're welcome to share your own experience—that's important, and what you've said about it here is important. We just need it to come without swipes and putdowns towards others.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we've had to ask you before about breaking the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30570715). If you wouldn't mind reviewing them and sticking to the intended spirit of the site, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#308

Post by hirvi74 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

kanbara wrote: post #214

hirvi74 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never know, but I have always been of the mentality that everyone has "something." Whether it has a diagnostic label or not. I guess, in a more terse sense -- life ain't easy for anyone.

"life is hard for everyone" for you means that we shouldn't give people mental health? if people have recognised diagnoses they are entirely entitled to treatment. whether it's "i can't sleep enough" to "i'm gay and feel like my relationship with my family has struggled" to "i have a fear of airplanes" to "i can't focus and sit still". even if there is no true neurotypical brain, the fact is that an overwhelming numb…

Perhaps I should have elaborated more.

By "something" I meant everyone has /something/ wrong with them to some degree i.e. no one is perfect and there is no such thing as normal. That 'something' could be mental or physical. If a person does not have something wrong at the moment, then time will eventually catch up.

Not to mention there are people that can have conditions to sub-clinical levels. One could technically have some of the criteria of a mental disorder without fully qualifying for a diagnosis. That doesn't mean they live life on easy mode just because they do not carry a diagnosis. Sure, they might have a /easier/ time in life, but I have never been one to think of suffering as some competition amongst others.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#309

Post by hirvi74 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #289

hirvi74 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never know, but I have always been of the mentality that everyone has "something." Whether it has a diagnostic label or not. I guess, in a more terse sense -- life ain't easy for anyone.

> life ain't easy for anyone I would gladly trade places with if you you honestly think this. I am homeless living with a mood disorder caused by an Autoimmune condition (Neuropsychiatric Lupus) that was misdiagnosed as Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder for the last 30 years of my life. I cannot work. So I kind of understand how you came to have this point of view. Since anyone on the internet, and usually some of the…

I am sorry to read about your situation and truly hope you are able to be in a better place as soon as possible.

I think being healthy in both mind and body is obviously advantageous compared to the alternatives, but I still don't think that life is easy for said people. Though, I suppose it would have to be looked at on an individual basis and not as a group.

One can be physically and mentally health and still be in abject poverty with no hope or way of getting out. One can also be healthy and on the lower distribution of intelligence. Having low enough intelligence is commonly coupled with certain disorders, but there is still a grey-area where you are still below average intelligence, but above any diagnostic criteria. I would argue that level of intelligence could cause many issues and disorder in one's life, and that their suffering isn't fake because there is no formal pathology to describe it.

Do said people suffer less than those with disorders? Perhaps, but I do not wish to view human suffering as some sort of competition. I think we should strive to help and to support all people when possible.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#310

Post by sizzle » Mon, May 02, 2022, 7:53 PM UTC

jrapdx3 wrote: post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

Thank you for having this perspective to help treat your adhd patients, wish there were more like you. I’ve encountered quite a few doctors who admitted they are scared of the DEA and losing their license and make us jump through flaming hoops to adjust dosages of stimulants or force us to navigate a byzantine maze of psychiatry to get to a psychiatrist that will take the liability away for prescribing/adjusting scheduled medications.

This is even with 10+ years of diagnosis.

Do you have any insight into why it is this way? Have physicians always feared the DEA and threat of losing their license in pursuit of helping their patients try different controlled medications? Did the pill mills ruin it for the entire medical industry?