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Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

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Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#301

Post by sodality2 »

grog454 wrote: post #277
sodality2 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the artificial limitation placed on Play Store listings and Apple App Store, versus the freedom of an artist to sell their music to any other platform (it's just that it would be far less successful). The only "pull factor" Spotify has is the userbase, which is arguably fair. For Google, though, the "pull factor" is because you literally cannot sell directly to users through the Play Store. One coul…

> For Google, though, the "pull factor" is because you literally cannot sell directly to users through the Play Store. Couldn't you replace "Google" and "Play Store" with "Spotify"? You can "sell" your app directly to users through your own site (see Fortnite) or dubious sites like https://en.uptodown.com/android/general-android but you have the same "pull factor" with the Play Store that you do with Spotify (the use…

Spotify is a service whereas GP is an application platform. You distribute apps (services like Spotify) through GP, whereas you distribute product (songs) through Spotify. GP is the only (reasonable) way to get apps on Android, whereas there are dozens of legal licensed alternatives for Spotify.

You can try to find alternatives for an app store, but that doesn't change the fact that inherently within Android, there are certain roadblocks that simply don't exist for a Spotify competitor, for example.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#302

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Erwin wrote: post #120
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Spotify is the best example here, since I'm not particularly convinced that more cash going to them would end up in the hands of musicians. But certainly, if I subscribe to The Economist I want as much of my money as possible to go to the journalists who actually write the content.

Spotify is public and you can see most of their numbers -- the Cost of Revenue for 2021 was 7 billion EUR on 9.6 in revenue. The cost is said to be mostly the royalties though it would include paying the many millions to some podcasters. The ad-supported users outnumbers premium users (236 million to 180 million) but bring in only 1/6th the revenue. So that's a factor depressing the payout per stream. https://investo…

It doesn't naturally follow that if I gave Spotify more money, they'd give it to the artists versus taking it as extra profit.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#303

Post by ryanobjc »

For a site filled with developers y’all really misunderstand the whole 30% cut thing.

It’s an alternate way to pay for API, sdk, and platform access.

Before the era of phones, if you wanted to develop for some kind of gated platform, for example video game consoles, one would have to pay very high SDK fees. Fees that would scale based on licensed seat, enterprise size, and more. Then when you ship, you’d pay royalties on a per item basis. You sold a game cartridge or cd? Great, a portion of your sale prices goes back to Sony/Nintendo/whatever.

If Apple and google were to provide un-marked up card services, they’d probably charge 3-5% like stripe: there’s a certain amount of fraud that would be priced in.

Then they would charge for dev tools. A lot. They’d probably charge for API or SDK usage, perhaps tied to the sales volume and enterprise size.

But instead they give the tools away for free, and charge at point of delivery.

I think the current situation is actually a great deal for developers: you get access to an always improving platform, it’s free for personal/hobby use, and if you make sales, you get paid. And the first $X is fee reduced/free. And it’s a highly available distribution platform that scales world wide. Good luck getting your Indy game into every brick and mortar store.

The world is really different, and way way better, for developers. This Spotify announcement is great for users, it’s handy to have all your subscriptions in one platform. And not having to sign up on a desktop or outside the app flow.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#304

Post by aeontech »

nerdjon wrote: post #60
rkk3 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe costing 30% more isn't worth centralizing the subscriptions

I fully understand that I am... maybe closer to people here but in the grand scheme of things financially I am in a better state than most people. But so I was curious, I have $762 worth of subscriptions a year through Apple. So I could save $228.60 if they were all 30% less. To me that is worth it. But I would also like to point out, that many of the apps I am subscribed too. I am only subscribed too because it was…

Right, but it seems like many people here are assuming the 30% cut is for subscription management / payment processing only, ignoring that arguably it also covers all the other benefits the access to centralized App Store gives.

Neither company is going to say “oh, you’re using another payment processor? Ok, our cut is now 0.”

Much more likely the argument will be “oh, you’re using another payment processor? That’s fine, industry standard payment processing fee is 3 percent, our cut will be correspondingly 27%”

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#305

Post by darepublic »

chihuahua wrote: post #240
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Spotify is the best example here, since I'm not particularly convinced that more cash going to them would end up in the hands of musicians. But certainly, if I subscribe to The Economist I want as much of my money as possible to go to the journalists who actually write the content.

For Spotify in particular, I'd rather have more money going to Google instead of Spotify. Because I don't want to be funding Joe Rogan.

You do know that YouTube's music selection is much better than Spotify's right. Not even close

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#306

Post by boogies »

ehsankia wrote: post #291
olau wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that a consumptionist attitude is popular these days, but as a user of something like Spotify I would surely prefer as much as possible of my monetary contribution ending up with Spotify and the musicians instead of in the hands of a company controlling the market place. To the people who think the exorbitant fees are okay: Imagine a world with no cash. Now the payment card companies decide they want 30% of al…

> Now the payment card companies decide they want 30% of all transactions What you did there is subtle, but you're comparing apples to oranges. "payment card companies" charge 2-3%. It's platforms like Steam, Play store or App store that charge 30%. Those are not comparable. I'm not arguing that 30% is the right number, but the analogy is very flawed. Ask anyone what % of their game sales comes from Steam vs their ow…

> Ask anyone what % of their game sales comes from Steam vs their own website/itch/humble/epic.

What % of payments come through payment card companies vs. cash/crypto/checks/etc. ?

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#307

Post by mustyoshi »

gumby wrote: post #51

I do see one potential customer benefit: rather than increasing your attack surface by giving two companies your CC info you just give one (google). In theory Google is going to have more security than a bunch of smaller companies. I use Apple Pay whenever possible for this precise reason. I don't want to trust Target with my CC info. Of course since under this scheme the company I'd be sharing my card info with is t…

Or more credit card companies could offer virtual cards, that way you can even tell which service leaked your card.

Capital One offers them for free.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#308

Post by denkmoon »

jmacd wrote: post #79

"Over the coming months, Spotify will work with Google’s product and engineering teams to build this new experience" It's so absolutely bizarre to announce something at this stage. I wonder what is prompting it.

imo this is squarely aimed at Apple and the scrutiny they are receiving with respect to Apple Pay. The actual implementation of this is ancillary, what "matters" is Google showing that they can/will do this and Apple don't.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#309

Post by ehsankia »

boogies wrote: post #306
ehsankia wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now the payment card companies decide they want 30% of all transactions What you did there is subtle, but you're comparing apples to oranges. "payment card companies" charge 2-3%. It's platforms like Steam, Play store or App store that charge 30%. Those are not comparable. I'm not arguing that 30% is the right number, but the analogy is very flawed. Ask anyone what % of their game sales comes from Steam vs their ow…

> Ask anyone what % of their game sales comes from Steam vs their own website/itch/humble/epic. What % of payments come through payment card companies vs. cash/crypto/checks/etc. ?

What does that have to do with what I said? I'm not talking about payment companies at all. 30% is for platforms, not payment companies.

Re: Spotify and Google Announce User Choice Billing

#310

Post by dantheman »

politician wrote: post #258
yywwbbn wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well even with all the available competition most developers seem to consider the 30% fee on Steam fair enough to host their games there. So maybe that 15/30% is not as ‘massive’ as one might think, especially considering that the app store model was massive improvement over what existed before them. Not that I’m a huge fan of closed ecosystems in general, but I’m not sure the government should dictate what sort of s…

Governments regulate all sorts of features on all sorts of products: building codes, electrical codes, car mpg requirements, how planes work, tax requirements, how corporations are allowed to function, the rights of citizens, ... Why should software get a free pass?

Because all of those things are about externalities?
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