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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#301

Post by TheCoelacanth »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #156
warner_of_doom wrote: post #38

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

I'm also surprised at just how many of my friends have turned from dovish "can't we all just get along" types into rabid "Russia Delenda Est" types who think that anyone who believes that even a modicum of this is perhaps America's fault is committing treason. For what it's worth, what Russia is doing is wrong. But I do absolutely understand Mearsheimer's perspective that this is basically a Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0…

No shit. Russia just launched an unprovoked attack on another country. That's about the farthest from "just getting along" that you can get.

Is it any wonder that people who like peace get mad when countries start wars?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#302

Post by TheCoelacanth »

empressplay wrote: post #21
majormajor wrote: post #9

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

What a ludicrous claim when there was a Soviet-aligned country 90 miles south of Florida for most of the cold war that the US never invaded.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#303

Post by mantas »

majormajor wrote: post #29
mantas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin feels invaded from the day USSR collapsed. By countries that were annexed or controlled by USSR regaining sovereignty.

That is still actually different from what Mearsheimer is claiming - that happened much earlier than NATO expansion and recent changes in Ukraine.

NATO expansion was a natural next step after USSR dissolution. Which, according to Putin, was the biggest catastrophy of 20th century.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#304

Post by warner_of_doom »

georgia_peach wrote: post #294
torstenvl wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing complex about it. They're bombing hospitals and schools and they're doing it intentionally.

Just like we do! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airs...

NO! I hate looking in the mirror!

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#305

Post by mantas »

georgia_peach wrote: post #298
KptMarchewa wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And US was also fucking wrong. Imperialism is evil.

Agreed. You have to ask yourself though: Why is the Western media so intent on cleaning Russia's house, while vehemently denying, dutifully downplaying, the West's own squalor? It is a truly striking example of " the beam and the mote ." After we remove the beam from our own eye, I will be glad to address Russia's splinter.

Coming from ex-USSR, West's issues are minuscule compared to the ones that Russia brings. I love having petty first world problems compared to what people 100km east from me deals. It's just entirely different leagues of issues.

And reading Western media, it usually downplays Russian issues and present West's much bolder than they truly are.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#306

Post by fragmede »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #302
empressplay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

What a ludicrous claim when there was a Soviet-aligned country 90 miles south of Florida for most of the cold war that the US never invaded.

Does the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba by the US not count?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#307

Post by mantas »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #282
georgia_peach wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same "right" the US would have had with Cuba if Khrushchev didn't remove the missiles, or the same "right" the US exercises when a small country with oil ponders denominating it in a different currency.

And US was also fucking wrong. Imperialism is evil.

At the same time US supported right of self determination after WW1. That allowed many small states to pop up in eastern/central europe. Which, IMO, was the last nail in the coffin of several empires.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#308

Post by cuteboy19 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #224
warner_of_doom wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> turned from dovish "can't we all just get along" types into rabid "Russia Delenda Est" types Manufactured consent.

I agree with Chomsky on a lot of things, don’t think I need to watch CNN or read the New York Times to take Ukraine’s side on this one. The international condemnation and lock step sanctions, is that the media’s doing? Or is it the consequence of Russia being the aggressor? I agree with my sibling, opinions tend to stiffen up when war breaks out, with or without the radio.

It is important to remember that Chomsky has repeatedly supported actual genocides so long as the person committing the genocides was anti western in some way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#309

Post by redisman »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #87
bbatha wrote: post #78

My problem with Mearsheimer and the other realists is they have a very poor explanation why the status quo changes. Yes great power competition explains why tensions are high but does little explain why and when they spill over to war. Notably absent from this article is any discussion of "why now?". Commenters in the thread are saying that his 2015 article on the subject could be written last week. That's precisely…

Baltics are easily neutralized with taking the Suwalki gap. The Russians were also not happy with them joining NATO, but couldn’t do much about it. And Ukraine (Kievan Rus) is the center of eastern Slavic civilization and therefore much more important to Putin than a largely unrelated culture in Latvia, Lithuania, etc. Otherwise yes I do think Mearsheimer is a little too mechanical in his theories and doesn’t factor…

Baltic’s will be greatly reinforced by Finland and Sweden joining NATO within 6 months to 2 years. 100% because of this act of war.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#310

Post by mantas »

polski-g wrote: post #197
mantas wrote: post #6

As a Lithuanian... All the „It's the West fault“ crowd is missing the elephant in the room. What is the alternative if West did what Russia want? De-facto Iron curtain still up with tens of millions of people living under authoritarian regimes similar to Belarus and, well, Russia. Yes, it's completely „West fault“ since they could have left us for Russia to eat for lunch. More „West faults“ please.

Ukraine stays neutral and doesn't join Russia nor NATO?

Ukraine is not neutral. Ukraine oligarchs tried to stay with Russia in 90s and due to that Ukraine missed the opportunity to join NATO when Russia was weak. Now Ukraine is in similar position as central europe in mid-90s. Striving to ally with West. Unfortunately this time Russia is stronger to try to prevent that.
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