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Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

reuters.com

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Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#301

Post by wombat-man »

ginja wrote: post #102
byteski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations! You bring an idea to brick all Russian phones including phones of opposition, people who against the war, political prisoners, and other people who just live in the country.

If the war is seen as something distant that has no impact at all on the average Russian's life will they actually care about it or will they just ignore it? To be clear I don't wish anything bad for the general Russian population, among which I have many friends, let alone Putin's opposition. And this may not be the best strategic idea, but it's a possible one that fits the theme of this community - so I think the s…

Yeah, idk if it would end the conflict exactly. But making more of the citizens there mad about it could help. Let's cut their cable feeds and internet services. I know they have some of their own, but imagine not being able to Google stuff.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#302

Post by ethbr0 »

agumonkey wrote: post #197
cglan wrote: post #3

It’s sad but my father always told me that the good times we’ve had are unprecedented and they can end faster than we think. I never believed him growing up, institutions and America seemed infallible. It’s sad to say but I think with global warming, covid, and the general decline of American soft power we’ll see more and more global turmoil My heart goes out to Ukraine and its people

Good times breed bad times. PS: I agree about the feeling of infaillible institution and international order..

Recent times were largely the result of an unusually unipolar (read: US) world after the USSR collapsed.

In more normal bi- or multi- polar periods (50s - 90s), international order often submitted to great power politics. What was right or legal was less important than who wanted what.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#303

Post by radu_floricica »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #38
warner_of_doom wrote: post #29

I am for keeping Ukraine as a neutral buffer separating Russia and the US. NATO proposed Ukrainian and Georgian membership of NATO in 2005-2008, in the clear knowledge that this would destabilize the situation. France, Germany, and others were against this. The proposal began the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBQikfYyKs We then openly backed the 2014 putsch in Kiev, an open act of aggression just as irrespo…

Will the people downvoting this comment mind telling me what is wrong with it? I'm not a Russian apologist, just a fan of history, and am trying to understand why so many people reject this narrative. edit: Now I am downvoted too just for asking..? This just makes me think that there is not a solid answer?

Buffer, yes. But the Maidan protests started because Russia made the first power grab. The very openly pro-Russian government of the time had just passed legislation that put Ukraine on a direct path towards becoming what is now Belarus. TBH, if that hadn't happen, we'd just have Ukraine more or less locked by Putin now. So no, we're not talking about a buffer zone, sorry. Not even in the strict military sense - the invasion today came from Belarus as well, and some reports even claim Belarusian troops, not that it matters much. So without that regime change, we'd most likely see Ukraine as part of the Russian Federation in a military capacity as well.

We _had_ a buffer zone until yesterday. NATO was supporting Ukraine without much real intention of having it join, while Russia had Crimea and half of Donbass. This could have gone for decades - see Transnistria, which does exactly the same for Moldova for 30 years.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#307

Post by Wiseacre »

anshumankmr wrote: post #217

It is quite interesting to see publications like Jacobin posting obvious flame bait such as this: https://twitter.com/jacobin/status/1496693868955246599 . Even Tucker Carlson is parroting Russian propaganda. https://i.redd.it/pr9tnneyemj81.png I hope the Ukrainian people fight back as hard as they can and the governments of the world help them in any way they can.

Very Orwellian. We were never at odds with Russia. The only ones telling you this are the bad people.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#308

Post by watwut »

erikig wrote: post #270
agumonkey wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good times breed bad times. PS: I agree about the feeling of infaillible institution and international order..

I don't know if it helpful during times like these but it sounds like the quote by G. Michael Hopf: Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times

And, the quote is onjectively bs. Hard times create hardened people who create hard time for others. And suffering.Good times are created by people who care and have right values.

The hard times in Ukraine now won't make anyone better. Men in west won't be inferior for not going through it.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#309

Post by cute_boi »

wyager wrote: post #26
dealforager wrote: post #8

I've worked at tech companies that despise helping the US military. Please understand that the world is complex and although all superpowers have done terrible things, helping the US is the only way our children will live in a peaceful world. This isn't about democrats or republicans, the future of humanity will be decided in the next decade.

Nuclear proliferation, like it or not, has done more for global peace than US military/trade hegemony. Ukraine gave up all its nukes in the 90s which is why this is happening now.

The nukes never belonged to Ukraine, unfortunately. It was always controlled by Soviet Union.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#310

Post by rym_ »

thjkgfgrrioppo wrote: post #268
ripvanwinkle wrote: post #32

To some extent this situation feels analogous to a street mugging happening in very slow motion The thug accosts the victim, threatens and then proceeds to assault the victim in full view of a large number of bystanders who are numerous enough to defend the victim and alter the outcome but not convicted enough to take on the inconvenience of doing so. Nevertheless all the bystanders voice words of encouragement and s…

Couldn't it simply be true that Putin doesn't want Ukraine to join Nato and Ukraine is trying to join anyway?

Russia should have no say over Ukraine.
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