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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#301

Post by dragonwriter »

tonfreed wrote: post #240
refurb wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure any of those things matter? - Plenty of vaccinated people against vaccine mandates and other restrictions. Doctors are allowed to be Covid positive and treat patients in BC and QC. But apparently truckers who are Covid negative are a problem? - Foreign money influence is a problem, sure, but businesses? They can’t support a protest? - Last poll I saw (Ipsos) said 1 out of 3 Canadians support the protest.…

1 out of 3 colonists supported the American revolution. It's not wise to stomp on such a large and vocal portion of your population.

> 1 out of 3 colonists supported the American revolution.

Obviously, there isn't good polling data for support for the revolution, but the information I can find puts estimates at 40-45%, with support for the Crown at between 15-20%. I wouldn't put too much weight on even that, though.

The popular 1/3 each for, against, and indifferent to the Revolution seems to be based on misinterpreting an 1815 letter from John Adams to James Lloyd recounting his estimate of support in America for France and the French Revolution in the US ca. 1797 (with the strong anti- side being supporters of England and opponents of the Revolution, and the neutrals being indifferent between England and France that would attach to one or the other side based on transient circumstances.)

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#302

Post by viro »

MattGaiser wrote: post #67
nirav72 wrote: post #33

This is definately going to back fire on him and his administration. There weren't any major incidence of violence or rioting. They got the bridge cleared. He should've left it at that and let it fizzle out.

> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia... The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.

yea.... That's not something to be proud of.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#303

Post by kerneloftruth »

Jackim wrote: post #54
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

Trudeau is calling the whole protest illegal. Last week they arrested an old man for merely honking his horn to show support. So, anyone attending a protest is joining an illegal activity...and can have their accounts frozen.

There's no guarantee of due process in Canada's constitution?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#304

Post by worik »

torstenvl wrote: post #249
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

$7.9mm of ~ $8mm total donations came from the U.S. and Canada. Please don't say things that are flatly untrue.

> $7.9mm of $8mm total donations came from the U.S. and Canada. Please don't say things that are flatly untrue.

Where is your evidence of that?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#305

Post by 015a »

pas wrote: post #216
buscoquadnary wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana ... My understanding was this was about the mandates and restrictions themselves not about the vaccine. I mean I am vaxxed and oppose vax mandates.

> oppose vax mandates why? could you explain your stande on other mandates/requirements and what's this vax mandate does that makes it so different? (eg. you need a passport/visa-like thing to enter, you need clothes, if you arrive by car that needs papers and a valid safety profile, you need to use the seatbelt, and so on)

I am not the OP, but hold a similar stance, primarily for the reason that the mandates represent a "the last 20% takes 80% of the time" inefficiency in what should be a global effort to dampen the pandemic, and the massive resources invested in first world countries to claw every last hundredth of a percent of the population to get vaccinated could be invested to see much greater effect in second & third world countries.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#306

Post by armagon »

rtpg wrote: post #215
busymom0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations. It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence. I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than fri…

"got natural immunity which is superior" is factually incorrect, at least to every statistical study done by national health orgs. I see many people say "this person, who is vaccinated but got COVID anyways, is allowed to do X. Other person, who has a negative COVID test but am not vaccinated, cannot. That is hypocritical." Can someone explain the hypocrisy? People do get that negative COVID tests have relatively lit…

So many rules have been dubious and nonsensical. I don't recall the specifics, but it seems like at one time in Alberta you could get together with 20 people, but you could only have ten people get together for a funeral.

The point of allowing a person to do X is based on the safety of them doing X. If we are preventing X due to fear of covid, then it makes sense to prevent people from doing X if they have covid, regardless of their vaccination status, and allowing them to do it if they do not have covid, regardless of their vaccination status.

Some of the rules appear to be punitive towards people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, and not designed to curb the spread of the disease; that is why hypocrisy is being called out.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#307

Post by srcreigh »

pkd wrote: post #143
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

There is no loss of mandate, if the opinion polls are anything to go by. Besides, the Canadian people chose the government in the middle of the pandemic last year. Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Whether the response is authoritarian depends on how it is enforced. The police have basically failed to enforce any law on the occupiers on parliament hill (I live here). If…

For what it's worth, Trudeau lost the popular vote last year.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#308

Post by plebianRube »

synthos wrote: post #106
busymom0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations. It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence. I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than fri…

False: 'got natural immunity which is superior'

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

> surviving a previous infection now provided greater protection against the subsequent infection than vaccination

> Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection

So natural immunity is better than only being vaxed, but getting a vaccine increases your protection in both cases.

In order of protection:

1. cleared infection + vax 2. cleared infection 3. vax

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#309

Post by guelo »

torstenvl wrote: post #249
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

$7.9mm of ~ $8mm total donations came from the U.S. and Canada. Please don't say things that are flatly untrue.

US is foreign money

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#310

Post by typon »

torstenvl wrote: post #249
WesternWind wrote: post #191

Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donat…

$7.9mm of ~ $8mm total donations came from the U.S. and Canada. Please don't say things that are flatly untrue.

How is the US not a foreign country?
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