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How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

blog.kuperate.com

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Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#301

Post by jameshush »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #182
flatiron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it means “someone who can bill $300 an hour” with no relation to actual ability. I was a “senior” three years out of college and I had no clue what in the world I was doing. Come to think of it after 20 years I kinda still feel that way.

> someone who can bill $300 an hour god.. that hurts. I've worked 10 years in the industry, have rescued code bases and currently am lead engineer and cto of a startup. I've tried doing some moonlighting but people balk when I quote them $80/hr. I really need a better network. plus my soft skills are terrible.

The good news is, soft skills are just skills. If you can learn JavaScript you can learn how to build relationships, or give a presentation. I know this because my soft skills used to be non-existent and now I give talks, workshops, have a podcast, and _even_ do stand up comedy.

This free course from a podcaster I listen to helped _a lot_ jordanharbinger.com/course. "Networking" is just a serious of small habits you do daily, there's zero rocket science involved. This book written by my speaking coach was a game changer for me too: https://bookyourselfsolid.com/

You hit the nail on the head though. The high rates come from relationships. Period. You don't _get_ the good gigs, you _earn_ them by providing 10x value to every client you work with and getting warm reviews from them.

I do zero machine learning, have no masters degree, and never passed any whiteboard code interview. But there's plenty of people who just need someone competent, dependable, and friendly to make their website work. Best of luck :)

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#302

Post by thaumasiotes »

iancmceachern wrote: post #296
thaumasiotes wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just to be clear, you're repudiating your statement that when people can't afford to attend college, that's not for lack of intelligence on their part?

I never made such a statement. This is reductio ad absurdum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Sorry, where did the "reduction" occur in rephrasing "above a certain intelligence, college is free" to "if you can't afford college, you're missing some intelligence"?

The one is just the logical contrapositive of the other.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#303

Post by walleeee »

munificent wrote: post #204
walleeee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A core concept behind something being a "game" is that it exists in a morally isolated sandbox This is interesting; if true, what of game theory's seat at the core of many notions of strategy as deployed for explicitly moral purposes? Also, anecdotally, I've seen pretty good results putting some campy, tongue in cheek acknowledgement that I'm not playing games in the resume/cover letter space where these alleged "r…

"Game" gets used to analyze human behavior a couple of unrelated ways. Game theory as a branch of mathematics is about analyzing adversarial and potentially limited knowledge systems. It is unrelated to whether some theoretical game is embedded in any particular social or moral system. You can look at dating, the voting patterns of the United Nations, and poker all under the lens of game theory even though the former…

> When people say something "is a game", often what they are implying is that "all legal moves are fair play"

Good point, I guess the concept is constantly negotiated by this sort of conversation too

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#304

Post by haidev »

As a fresh graduate I can really relate with this article. The number of recruiters that reached out to me since I started applying two months ago is insane, some of them just want a Microsoft Word version of my resume, some straight up asked me to add fake projects and internships on my resume.

That's without bringing the number of recruiters that wants you to pay them a weekly fee and "guarantee" you a job in X number of weeks.

I'll end with one funny recruiter that reached out two weeks ago from a similar recruiting firm. I made it clear from the beginning that I will NEVER lie on my resume neither allow them to edit my resume. He offers me this job that he found for me. I started asking about the compensation and he says 18$/hour, I laughed and said that this rate won't work for me especially in the Bay Area. He said he'll circle back with his manager and try to get me 65K/year like I asked which I believe is fair for someone fresh off school like me, I am not chasing after a FAANG salary especially being a recent grad. Anyways long story short, he calls me back and offers me $20/hour without any benefits this time. I just humbly declined and politely asked him to not reach me again.

The market seems to be hot for Senior developers, which leaves recent grads struggling to find jobs especially in a remote setting. I'm grateful that I am like OP where I can fall back on my parents and keep looking for a job neither do I need sponsorship.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#305

Post by inawarminister »

HideousKojima wrote: post #289
shard wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought General Counsel means you have a JD?

What Musk is saying is that from a legal perspective, there are only three job titles/roles that must be filled in a corporation. Beyond that, they could literally have titles like "Grand Chief Space Wizard" and "Cheesy Toast" for various jobs and roles. They could call the role of General Counsel "Asshole in a Suit."

IIRC Musk's job title in Tesla (?) now is 'Techno King'.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#306

Post by 908B64B197 »

kodah wrote: post #57

> While I certainly don't approve of these practices, I'm also not saying that these companies are only evil. I view that they serve a very strong need in some corners of the system, like a coding bootcamp for the less fortunate. Absolutely not. I was in college for CS/CE, dropped out during an economic crisis, joined the military, and had to work my way through technician, network engineer, systems engineer, DevOps,…

There's more to these "shops" than meets the eyes: frequently there's also immigration fraud happening. These "consultancies" will make sure someone can qualify for X years of "relevant experience" so they can qualify for a visa (sponsored by said shop).

I wouldn’t be surprised if some people actually paid for the training and visa sponsorship. That’s of course illegal but how will they find out about a “debt” held to a loan shark in a foreign country?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30154006

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#307

Post by raisedbyninjas »

selestify wrote: post #64
gambiting wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how HN sometimes behaves as if the entire world is one or two small corners of the US.

If you graduate from any top 10 school in the US — which plenty of people do — it is indeed a pretty typical offer Love how I’m downvoted for pointing out a fact. I mean, for fuck’s sake, look at levels.fyi. And look at how many people FAANG and FAANG-adjacent startups hire every year. It’s really not that rare. But hey, stay in denial.

GP said quarter mil was typical of new grads (unqualified), not typical of elite new grads. A glance at BLS data shows that's multiples of the median wage in software.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#308

Post by iancmceachern »

Ancapistani wrote: post #277
beauzero wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop using that word. It sucks the life from you because you think it excuses you from self analyzing why you aren't happy where you are. Life is not fair if you are a human, cat, squirrel or mouse. We are born into a specific set of conditions...look around and move but please stop using the word privilege. Everyone and everything is different.

I actually agree with this, if only because of the political connotations the term “privilege” has acquired. I think a better term would be “advantages”. It adequately describes the meaning that’s being conveyed without carrying the implication that it’s necessarily completely outside of the individual’s control.

Yeah, I agree.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#309

Post by iancmceachern »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #302
iancmceachern wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never made such a statement. This is reductio ad absurdum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Sorry, where did the "reduction" occur in rephrasing "above a certain intelligence, college is free" to "if you can't afford college, you're missing some intelligence"? The one is just the logical contrapositive of the other.

Those aren't the same thing, that's where the reduction occurred.

My statement, which is the simple reality of the world, was that top performing students who are able to prove so via grades, test scores and other admissions requirements and scholarship requirements, are able to have top tier educations paid for via scholarships and similar aid. For folks, like me, who weren't in that bucket, have a different set of opportunities and tradeoffs. Those include paying for a 200k "top tier" education if our situation affords it, or the choice I and many others make which is to go to the best state school (or other "affordable") option.

I'm not complaining, it's just how the world works. If you were to create a flow chart for college that covers any input (student), this is what it would look like.

Reducing the above to "college is free above a certain intelligence" is missing the point and focusing on a needless obsurd detail.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#310

Post by 908B64B197 »

gambiting wrote: post #53
yunyu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quarter million dollars is what a typical new grad offer looks like nowadays

I love how HN sometimes behaves as if the entire world is one or two small corners of the US.

That small corner has an outsized influence on software worldwide. Most high-impact developers and companies are there.
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