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App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

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Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#301

Post by runako »

lostmsu wrote: post #233
Spivak wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, I also wouldn't pay 20-40% more for free two day shipping or 30% more for free food delivery over $12, but nonetheless Amazon and DoorDash are able to take that much of a cut from sellers and restaurants. You miss the fundamental thing which is that the charge is specifically for publishers for a reason. It's because it absolutely is worth 30% to every business who wants to reach a lucrative market.

> DoorDash are able to take that much of a cut from sellers and restaurants You are building a perfect argument against Apple here. As DoorDash rates grew I stopped using them less and less and started driving to the restaurants myself. And DoorDash rates are still far cry from 30%.

Reminder of the risks of generalizing from one's personal experience, quite especially if one has an HN account. DoorDash revenues & delivery volume show that more people are placing orders, and for more money.

And this is for basic delivery, where many buyers will be a short drive away and could in theory have placed a 1985-style pickup order. There's no captive element like an App Store.

https://s22.q4cdn.com/280253921/files/doc_financials/2021/q3...

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#302

Post by sudosysgen »

scarface74 wrote: post #128
sudosysgen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they sold an iPad that was only made for playing games and that was sold at a large loss, it would be a different conversation, even though I think that consoles should be opened up.

Epic tried to use the same argument in front of a desk judge with a real law degree. She disagreed.

I'm not making a legal argument. I'm making an "ought" argument. We're talking about legislation, not legal interpretation.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#303

Post by arvinsim »

tmpuser123 wrote: post #259

To those who say that if I don't sideload then this change won't affect me, I don't think this is true. Just because there aren't many alternative app stores on Android doesn't mean it won't happen on iOS. Developers will do this if there is a financial incentive. This is a forced fragmentation of the App store and will do absolutely nothing to improve the experience of a normal, non-HN-reading end user. This will in…

> Just because there aren't many alternative app stores on Android doesn't mean it won't happen on iOS.

This is all just conjecture. You don't have proof that it will happen to iOS.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#304

Post by snazz »

starik36 wrote: post #297
keleftheriou wrote: post #27

Great news. Apple has turned the magic of software development from “how cool would this be?” to “how cool would Apple be with this?” That’s an environment of software suppression instead of free innovation, and Apple has felt little pressure to change. For anyone concerned about the security and privacy implications, don’t fall for the misconceptions perpetuated by Apple: non-App Store apps will still be sandboxed (…

I agree with your sentiment, but how would apps be scanned by Apple if you are allowed to sideload via 3rd party stores? They don't exactly scan apps downloaded from Cydia today.

An on-device service could upload executable hashes to Apple like on macOS, in addition to XProtect/MRT.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#305

Post by mdoms »

tmpuser123 wrote: post #259

To those who say that if I don't sideload then this change won't affect me, I don't think this is true. Just because there aren't many alternative app stores on Android doesn't mean it won't happen on iOS. Developers will do this if there is a financial incentive. This is a forced fragmentation of the App store and will do absolutely nothing to improve the experience of a normal, non-HN-reading end user. This will in…

That's right, increased competition will drive down the prices that Apple can charge. I don't think your argument is the slam dunk you think it is.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#306

Post by TipiKoivisto »

ribosometronome wrote: post #23
jliptzin wrote: post #7

Surprised it took this long. If they would have taken a more reasonable 5-10% of developer earnings they’d still collect billions upon billions in rent while not angering millions of developers and lawmakers writing this legislation. Or at least charge a tiered annual publication fee plus payment processing fees. But greed got the best of them. Their fees are akin to a shopping mall owner taking 30% of store revenues…

>Oh and by the way, there’s no other malls in town to move your business to. I mean, given that this bill is targeting two companies, I'm not sure your analogy holds. There clearly is another mall you could move to. You just wouldn't get the patrons at the other mall. And they charge the same and always have. And, your business doesn't even have to be located in the mall if you think the fees are unreasonable. You ju…

You can also drive any road but you choose the highway because it's the fastest and you know where it's headed.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#307

Post by pkaye »

> New rules could require them both to allow app side-loading — installing apps from non-sanctioned marketplaces — and alternative payment processing systems. Apple and Google have argued vehemently against the bill.

Doesn't Google already allow side loading or is that no longer so?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#308

Post by mortenjorck »

Apocryphon wrote: post #165

I find the FUD against third party app stores on iOS to be simultaneously crediting Apple with providing immense amounts of security in its App Store, and believing that it would be incredibly helpless without sole control through its App Store. That's very contradictory, both in ignoring the many, many vulnerabilities and scams that have proliferated on the App Store through the years (not to mention other negative…

> Apple still has ultimate control of its operating system

This is by far the most under-appreciated point in all the dialog around third-party app stores (and intentionally downplayed by Apple itself). Apple doesn't have to control the store to control the platform. The degree to which independently-distributed binaries can still be locked down remains entirely within Apple's control, and if they really do somehow fail to stop this legislation (realistically, I see both Apple and Google tying it up in the courts for years) expect a new level of hardening in iOS and Android from top to bottom.

Ironically, this will probably be better for security in the long run.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#309

Post by scarface74 »

bluSCALE4 wrote: post #55
scarface74 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you trust Apple to patch security fixes and distribute it as soon as they know or a random third party developer?

Neither. Lots of bounty hunters have come out threatening to go public if Apple doesn't patch fix / pay them.

Why haven’t they then? Or at least sold them already to one of the Israeli firms?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#310

Post by Apocryphon »

bobthepanda wrote: post #290
tmpuser123 wrote: post #259

To those who say that if I don't sideload then this change won't affect me, I don't think this is true. Just because there aren't many alternative app stores on Android doesn't mean it won't happen on iOS. Developers will do this if there is a financial incentive. This is a forced fragmentation of the App store and will do absolutely nothing to improve the experience of a normal, non-HN-reading end user. This will in…

Not looking forward to when Verizon, AT&T, and T-mobile all decide to make app stores of their own and put them front and center. Their first attempts pre-iPhone were very shoddy.

Apple disrupted the whole game and put carriers on the defensive. It is highly unlikely that the carriers could try to create their own app stores to funnel iOS users towards them. Unlike with Android, neither they nor the OEMs have the ability to customize the operating system. Nor would users care to install a bunch of bloatware apps on some shoddy telecom's third party app store.
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