On Leaving Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#301

Post by kodah » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 5:55 AM UTC

a10c wrote: post #287

lolinder wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large companies don't need tens of thousands of system architects. They need tens of thousands of coders who can do what they're told on small parts of a system without fussing too much about the bigger picture. I think that's what OP is referring to—leetcode filters for young developers who don't need to understand all the reasons why they're doing what they're doing.

Why would a well rounded senior developer be interviewing for a role that requires a code monkey?

No job is ever phrased as needing a code-monkey and no one wants to think of themselves as a primate doing a very specific task.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#302

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

Hermitian909 wrote: post #295

vanusa wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like you gradually come to a realization that your time in this world is extremely, extremely precious. And that you just don't particularly see a need to cater to other people's made up (and sometimes downright farcical) rituals to such an excessive degree. No matter how much money they may dangle in front of you.

> More like you gradually come to a realization that your time in this world is extremely, extremely precious. > And that you just don't particularly see a need to cater to other people's made up (and sometimes downright farcical) rituals to such an excessive degree. > No matter how much money they may dangle in front of you. I confess to not understanding this take, money can purchase back a substantial portion of t…

[deleted]

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#303

Post by Shikadi » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:07 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #266

Shikadi wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to judge people for working at faang, you better never shop at Walmart or Amazon, never buy any foreign electronics because they're made with child labor, work for a non profit that doesn't shovel money away from those who produce it into the hands of shareholders that control the public policy allowing for atrocities like DuPont, never buy anything with Teflon in it, take the bus instead of owning a…

> If you're going to judge people for working at faang, you better never shop at Walmart or Amazon I do my best, but I fully admit I am not perfect in this regard. > allowing for atrocities like DuPont, never buy anything with Teflon in it, I completely agree with you here. The leadership of these corps should have faced serious jail time for C8 contamination. > We're all in the same exploitative evil system, get off…

From my perspective, your money came from the same system, and you're acting on blanket baseless prejudice.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#304

Post by kodah » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

pkdpic wrote: post #11

Glad to see this was about working at FB / Meta rather than being a user. Just for personal interest. Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. Wondering if I should be trying for FaceBook as long as Im bothering to study. Had a very positive-feeling convo with a recruiter there ~6mo ago before "Meta". Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Any thoughts?

I don't know how informative my opinion is, but I'll do my best to lay it out.

Some background:

I'm quite pro-privacy. I go to great extents to marginalize cloud services in my life. I pay for services and am, by default, skeptical of free services. I consider this core to my ethos as a person. I was raised in a decently religious household, but went to a religious school, every day, for over a decade - I'm not a fan of "morals".

I'm also a senior engineer who does most of our hiring filtering for a fairly large firm. I will interview and hire Facebookers, Googlers, Amazonians etc. They're skilled, usually in singular domains, and passionate people - thus useful. Do I agree with their ethical compasses or excuses they've made for such work as a person? Absolutely not. However, their life is not my life, and I'm sure there's judgements they could equally pass on to me about my life and experiences if I were so brazen to (publicly) pass my judgement on to them.

There's some inevitable questions that come with my view:

How do you trust them given the orientation of their ethical compass? Simple. My company (and team!) has our own ethical frameworks and principles. If they don't abide by them my judgement isn't needed - the company will terminate them.

How do you listen to talk about ethics or morals from them? I don't. The great thing about ethical frameworks is they're usually set by people far above me who have a much higher view of the landscape than I do. Morals are a cathartic replacement for ethical frameworks when someone needs to feel good about themselves; thus they're pretty irrelevant when ethical frameworks are abound.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#305

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:09 AM UTC

> The salary is high. Facebook aims to pay top 5% compensation in the market (we’ll get back to that). This makes a lot of other things very comfortable: you can go to a restaurant without worrying too much about the bill, get a nicer car, a nicer house, better stuff.

That's very normal, and I don't want to condemn the author for this, but this is a trap. If you get used to the consumption that a 5% salary offers you, then you will have an extremely hard time finding a job that's not at the 5% or better compensation. And those other jobs might come with other tradeoffs that make them unpalatable in other ways.

Avoiding the hedonic treadmill[0] is a good habit to get into if your compensation goes up. It increases your financial stability, and means that you can take a lower paying job if you decide that it'll make you happier in other ways.

0 - Technical term for how increased spending sets your expectations higher, and quickly stop bringing the rush that they first brought.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#306

Post by ipaddr » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:10 AM UTC

vanusa wrote: post #125

pkdpic wrote: post #11

Glad to see this was about working at FB / Meta rather than being a user. Just for personal interest. Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. Wondering if I should be trying for FaceBook as long as Im bothering to study. Had a very positive-feeling convo with a recruiter there ~6mo ago before "Meta". Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Any thoughts?

Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Rather than focusing on how an association with FB would be viewed on your resume -- you may want to ask yourself whether that company lives up to your own moral standards, and whether (just to yourself) you would feel proud of yourself for working there. Many people have come to the conclusion that it is an extremely cynical and unethical co…

So someone shouldn't take a job at one of the biggest companies because 16 years ago the founder acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion?

I can't see that affecting someone's employment.

Your points are why someone shouldn't vote for Mark for president not why someone shouldn't take a job.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#307

Post by ravenstine » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:13 AM UTC

tippytippytango wrote: post #173

Aperocky wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? Does Meta not have those options? The frustration feels almost artificial, if one does not want to get more work, then maybe just go boating or mountain biking. Watch some s…

It doesn't work like that. You have to be "on" even if you aren't working. That means you feel like you can't commit to anything substantial since you feel like you should be working. Fucking off on the internet is a coping mechanism to numb the pain of being in this limbo where you aren't working; but, feel like you should be working because you are getting paid a lot. In retrospect it's easy to see that there's thi…

And even if you can manage to find things to do to occupy the time and appear busy, you'll be lucky if management considers the importance of your work and schedule it with the rest of your workload. One too many times have I had to find something to do and spend weeks or months on that thing only to have management tell me to immediately stop working on it even though that thing was actually important. This may not seem different from just being "on", but I find that having real work be tossed in the garbage is even more demoralizing than milling around and not really doing anything.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#308

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:14 AM UTC

voakbasda wrote: post #95

elb0w wrote: post #79

It always blows my mind how most interview in our field. When I first started in tech I was afraid to talk about not knowing leetcode to my peers. 15 years in and I now can confidently say I’ve yet to meet someone who thinks these are a valid metric. Why do we make this the gate keeper to our industry when we know (except for the very specific roles) we will rarely need leet code type problems. When we do we just goo…

Somebody here on HN recently shared the notion that leetcode tests are a legal way to discriminate by age or lifestyle, as older and well-rounded developers do not have the time or inclination to grind on such things.

As a successful developer well past middle age, I find this to be nonsense. The most common complaint I hear around this is "yeah, that discriminates against people who don't have time to grind to do the preparation."

Why is it weird that people should spend time preparing for ask for a new job? I mean, ask an orchestra musician how much time they put into preparing for auditions, or how much time many degreed professionals put into passing a certification (e.g. the bar exam or medical boards).

If you don't want to spend time preparing for job interviews, then fine, don't. But don't claim "discrimination" when there are those of us willing to sacrifice to put in the hours to prepare.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#309

Post by zionic » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:16 AM UTC

VirusNewbie wrote: post #286

zionic wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to seem arrogant and sanctimonious about it. I’m firm, firm in my belief that the people who have chosen of their own free will to work for FAANG have made moral compromises that disqualify them from my employment. I don’t get how this is “sanctimonious”. These people have made some absolutely terrible life choices, and alienation is a part of the consequence package that comes with those life choices.

You think netflix is a moral compromise? What about the US government?

Netflix was pretty neutral until about 4 years ago. Their leadership jumped the shark and the entire platform has been trash since.

Side personal note: Fuck you guys for getting rid of stargate.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#310

Post by ipaddr » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 6:16 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #278

cantrememberpw8 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was previously at the top of the salary band for Sr. Software Engineer at a decent big company, making 1.7-2x mediocre engineers I know elsewhere. Joining FB, my total comp (400kish) is an ample 5x mediocre in my area, and I hear thats normal across FAANGs. I know 2x is still ridiculously high, even 1x is a very reasonable amount to live on, but 2x doesn't compare to 5x.

Sounds like you’re making bank now. The problem is that, you sound like are expecting me to respect you. You sold out, sure you got some more cash for your trouble so congrats I guess. I just want you to be honest about what you did.

You sold out the minute you agreed to trade your time for money.