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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#301
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows a disturbing lack of empathy. > I want a server who will entertain me while I'm waiting. Not everyone does--people are fickle. There's also a reason theaters don't use a pay-what-you-want model. Having your lively hood to depend on the whims of strangers is no way to operate.

> Having your lively hood to depend on the whims of strangers is no way to operate. Your lively hood ALWAYS depends on the whims of strangers. It doesn't matter what you do, you depend on strangers to support you.

You're being disingenuous. The difference is how directly you depend on the whims on strangers and whether those whims include breaking a contract.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An outcome of little to no consequences for actions. Come visit my local grocery store. Few replace carts at the store or in the stalls, there will be 2-6 vehicle using the clearly-marked "Fire Lane - No Parking" lane as their personal parking spots plainly blocking the doors of the foyer (and this is not drop-off, not pick-up, not having their spouse load up in a rain storm). Have "About 12 Items or Fewer" - well ha…

While I agree that "the customer is always right" attitude has actuality just become a policy of non-confrontation... >I want the meat of sandwich A, the bread off sandwich B, the condiments from an item on the Sunday Brunch menu If they think bread +meat +condiment is a highly demanding, needy sandwich order, then perhaps waiting tables isn't for them. It at least suggests why they might find their tip-based compens…

Gotta love HN entitlement.

It's not just the waitress. It's also the kitchen staff, which has to fulfill the orders. Low-cost special menus like brunch menus make their money on volume. At least half the food service equation relies on the kitchen to whip the orders out in time. Special requests slow the entire kitchen down. Not a problem if, say, there's not a huge rush. But a huge problem if the staff is slammed.

Maybe you should take after the former labor secretary and go try your hand at a service job.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#303
That's an excellent article that I think highlights a big chunk of the explanation for the recent labor shortage.

While I'll admit I experienced a quick mental blip on the notion that someone might expect me to tip an amount that's a function of movie tickets plus food and drinks in a counter-service situation, I think it's a spot-on observation that workers on the low end of the wage spectrum have a sea of options and won't be putting up with what amounts to abuse, even if it's not an entirely intentional act on the part of management.

The article tracks very well with what I've heard from employers and employees that it's not just about wages. The author was clearly happy with the gig when things were going well.

But when it's Christmas (or maybe when there's something fun happening this weekend that sounds better than cleaning feces from a movie theater seat) during a labor shortage and everyone is overworked, the low wages combine with literally every other damn downside about what can be a truly thankless job to form a crystal-clear and perfectly legitimate plan to achieve the perfect holiday schedule. A worker can simply quit, enjoy their holiday, and later go find a job that's probably going to pay more and/or offer better working conditions.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#304
post #282
post #273

> And with the stock market at an all-time high, corporate profits soaring, and CEO pay exponentially higher than their workers, execs can afford to share the wealth a bit. Executive pay makes up a tiny fraction of the total salary expense of a large corporation. Even redistributing the entire salary of the CEO among workers will have no impact whatsoever.

> Executive pay makes up a tiny fraction of the total salary expense of a large corporation. If the Activision/Blizzard CEO's pay were lowered to 100 times median income, it would be enough to give each employee an extra $16,000.

Activision/Blizzard are not finding it difficult to find workers through.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#305
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a Starbucks barista for a year (2000), and customer tips were an important part of my take home. I think most people think like you, because at the time I calculated my average tip was 5 cents per customer, but that still raise my hourly to something I could almost afford to live on (I think it took me from $6-something to about $9/hr). I wouldn't consider getting a latte and not tipping after that experience.

Ugh, not sure why you're getting downvotes for relating a personal anecdote that's relevant to the topic. This forum is weird. I hate that minimum wage is so far below living-wage in many places. But, I'm also loathe to tip everybody in a customer-facing job. Where do I draw the line? I'd much prefer (and would happily vote for) a $15 or $20 minimum in my region (DC metro).

I'm not sure why either - super curious.

I was trying to add to the discussion with my experience.

I will add, the role of barista has changed at Starbucks in the last 20 years. When I had that job, pulling a good shot and foaming the milk properly was something that I took a lot of pride in - I approached it as a skill. As I was leaving the company was moving to essentially push-button espresso machines, removing any sense of craft from the barista.

It makes perfect business sense, as the company goal is the same quality of drink no matter time/place/barista, but to me just pushing buttons wasn't interesting or fun.

Honestly, I loved that job! People come in, and you give them the thing that makes them happier and helps them feel better. I had regulars with a nice rapport, and I worked 5a to noon most days and was able to hike or golf in the afternoons. I was living rent free as a house sitter, which made the finances work out.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and in that regard I've always found EU countries much more humane, in the sense they don't have to take shit from a bad customer and smile because of the weight of the tip in their salary.

Yeah, instead the customer has to take it from bad servers with nothing they can do about it.

Doubtful, a restaurant with bad service will go kaput. Restaurant owners do care about this kind of thing. It's called the hospitality industry for a reason.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#307
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. Free markets do not preclude social safety nets, or things like universal basic income.

In fact, if you want the labour market to be a free market, universal basic income will help; then you've got a market where people can always say no to a deal they don't like. When the choice becomes: take the shitty deal or starve, it's not really a free market anymore.

What stops sellers from raising prices to the point that any meaningful gain in UBI is effectively zero?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#308
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. Free markets do not preclude social safety nets, or things like universal basic income.

In fact, if you want the labour market to be a free market, universal basic income will help; then you've got a market where people can always say no to a deal they don't like. When the choice becomes: take the shitty deal or starve, it's not really a free market anymore.

[deleted]

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too true! Yes he's now in the workforce, and it's such a shame that he NOW sees how the system works AFTER dictating/enforcing policy about it for an entire state. And there's an implication at the end of the article: tip more, customers. Policy is fine, it didn't cause this problem, customer behavior did. Perhaps he needs more confirmation through that experience.

I can definitely see why what would be your interpretation of the end of the article, but I don't think that's what the author was trying to convey. Earlier on, under the "The first and biggest is wages" header, the author implies that the policies around tipping are a big part of the problem. But the reality is that there have long been efforts to end the practice of tipping in the US, and they have all failed. Even…

These are very valuable points from the article and good observations about the condition that a HCoL area (really, any area) is subjected to. Thank you for that.

One area that is problematic is not the custom of tipping, but the policy around tip-based wage earners. Sure, people will tip. Is the concern that the practice makes untraceable tax revenue? We could do away with the policy practice of reduced minimum wage floors for tip-based jobs. It wouldn't introduce a barrier for the practice of tipping, but it also wouldn't tacitly condone tipping through policy, either.

Now, can off-books money change hands (undeclared, untaxed income)? Sure, but honestly someone can hand me cash right now and it wouldn't be trackable either. So from that, I don't believe that we can or should stop tipping, actually (I don't see the problem with it).

My problem is: I don't think that policy reliant on goodwill (suppressing minimum wage floors and hoping tips arrive) is a good strategy. I've had those jobs and I know that pain. It's * almost * like the author is saying that demand will meet the supply shortage in labor right now, but there's this ghost tip component of the equation that troubles me. Just do away with reduced minimum wage floors for "tip based" jobs. Then we don't have to send this message any way other than, "it's nice to tip for nice service."

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#310

I wonder why all the comments from this thread exclusively about tips when the article covered much much more than that. Interesting.

Probably because he concludes the piece saying “Customers… if you don’t tip or act like an act like an asshole… workers will not be there to serve you.” Most of us have been customers at movie theaters, so we latch on to the part where he addresses us.

Meanwhile, we’re all experiencing an increase in expected tips, both percentage-wise and existing services newly asking for tips, which tends to annoy customers. It’s like hidden fees for airlines and airbnb and all that other shit. You know it’s coming, but it always annoys a bit, and it’s just growing.

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