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I Built a Shed (2020)

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Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#301

Post by unethical_ban »

alex_sf wrote: post #293
unethical_ban wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is NM-B? What is CM? What is WRB? What is OSB? If your point is to educate those without knowledge, a link or spelling some things out is helpful.

That's not the point. The point is that if you don't recognize the acronyms for non-metallic cable, comm multi, water resistant barrier, or oriented strand board, you should not be building a structure in a dense residential area.

On one hand, I know there are good reasons for safety codes. On the other, it's my property and I want a covered workshop with a power outlet.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#302

Post by lemming »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #216
pjc50 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that anything about this shed is built to code This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but slightly less than perfect, things. I would also note that, while I'm sure everyone's right about the rules in Santa Cruz, this is jurisdiction specific. In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails,…

> In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails, or corrugated cardboard and PVA glue if you're so inclined. In many US locations you aren't required to pull a permit and get inspections for sheds below a certain square footage either. But that's not a free pass to build an unsafe structure. Using (non-structur…

There's no free pass for ignoring electrical regulations just because a building is below a certain size in the US, and I doubt there is in the UK either.

Right, this is the case in New Zealand too. Want a sleepout under 10 m^2? Go for it. Want it wired to electricity or plumbed in? Then you need consent.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#303

Post by teh_klev »

alex_sf wrote: post #300
teh_klev wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, and feel for you. The level of overreaction here is beyond comical. Given this is HN in the San Fran startup zone I have to say that for a culture of break all the rules this lot are hilariously conservative just because you built a shed . I like your shed.

There's a difference between deploying a buggy Javascript app and running 120v electrical to a shoddy lean-to.

This shed is better built than most of the crap you'd buy from the chain DIY stores. Maybe have a read of the article before commenting.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#304

Post by alex_sf »

teh_klev wrote: post #303
alex_sf wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between deploying a buggy Javascript app and running 120v electrical to a shoddy lean-to.

This shed is better built than most of the crap you'd buy from the chain DIY stores. Maybe have a read of the article before commenting.

I’ve read it. I’ve also worked residential construction. It is absolutely not better built than prefab sheds at orange or blue stores.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#305

Post by alex_sf »

unethical_ban wrote: post #301
alex_sf wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. The point is that if you don't recognize the acronyms for non-metallic cable, comm multi, water resistant barrier, or oriented strand board, you should not be building a structure in a dense residential area.

On one hand, I know there are good reasons for safety codes. On the other, it's my property and I want a covered workshop with a power outlet.

I mean the solution is straightforward: do what you want, just do it to (at least) minimum code.

Hire someone if you’re not interested in taking the time to learn what minimum code is. It’s not particularly complex and is generally intuitive, but every line is written in blood.

If you are interested, just start with each component. Building a powered workshop is not fundamentally different from building a house, and that’s not recommended for a first project.

Tackle one subsystem at a time. Replace some flooring, some siding, add a receptacle, etc.

Each one will let you learn best practices and minimum code for each part, and put you on the right path.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#306

Post by davidbanham »

ohazi wrote: post #33

Not that anything about this shed is built to code, but this takes the cake: > PRO TIP Use screws for everything; if you mess up, remove the screws and redo it; with nails, it’s a lot harder to do that. You absolutely should not do this for framing, and most building codes specify the type and size of nails that you must use when fastening load-bearing structural components. Screws are convenient, sure, but they are…

Also, it’s just not that hard to “undo” a nailed framing joint. Bang the top piece of wood with a hammer from the underside. It will separate from the other piece with the nails still in it. Now bang the nails out by hitting the pointy bit with your hammer. Job done. 45 seconds of work, just need to be comfortable on the tools.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#307

Post by stickfigure »

jacquesm wrote: post #237
stickfigure wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's short. Put a normal extension cord in the "conduit", with plugs on each end. At least here in California, electrical code ends at the receptacle. You can do practically anything you want on the other side, as long as it plugs in.

That trick won't work. An extension cord is only seen as such as long as it is not permanently attached to a structure, and definitely not when it powers a fixed structure. In other words, it needs to be temporary and to be disconnected when not in use. As soon as you connect it permanently affix it or bury it you are violating the electrical code. Otherwise this would act as a giant loophole around the electrical co…

> Otherwise this would act as a giant loophole around the electrical code

...it basically is? People use it that way. All the time. Whether or not you like like that, it's the way it is.

Personally I'm pretty ok with it. This guy is not actually going to kill someone with his shed.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#308

Post by pjc50 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #175
pjc50 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that anything about this shed is built to code This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but slightly less than perfect, things. I would also note that, while I'm sure everyone's right about the rules in Santa Cruz, this is jurisdiction specific. In the UK, if your shed is less than 15m^2 and is not used as living accomodation, no building regulations apply, and you can build it with screws, nails,…

This is why we can't have nice, or at least affordable but slightly less than perfect, things. I really enjoyed reading the article just as someone who likes writing and reading. It was very engaging and I enjoyed the process he went through from having an idea to finally committing to it and I especially liked him commenting on things like choosing materials that fit in his car. I also really am enjoying the comment…

It's very tricky, and while I think it's usually a safe bet to look for racism when some US policy is inexplicable, building code inflation is a problem in a lot of places. Each individual measure usually makes sense, and may even be driven by a particular incident - see the Grenfell fiasco in the UK which is forcing everyone in an apartment to check for flammable cladding. But the totality of the measures can be quite onerous.

We get a particular version of NIMBYism here in Edinburgh with living in a UNESCO world heritage site. There's strong pressure to freeze the city core in its 19th century appearance; I broadly agree with that, except that exceptions seem to be made for the most expensive and ugliest buildings. While round the outside two-floor suburbs are going up.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#309

Post by lazide »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #164
lazide wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind, while yes this is a huge code issue mixing low voltage and high voltage - ‘it depends’ in a lot of jurisdictions on other elements. Following is for other folks running across this, in case it helps them. At least in California, I’m pretty sure it’s code compliant to use rated non-metallic conduit for outside high voltage runs for instance. That conduit is made of PVC. It’s the grey plastic electrical c…

> It’s a much better idea to use EMT You cannot bury EMT underground. One of the nice things about actual metal conduit, depending on the nature of the soil where you live, is that it only needs to be buried 7" down to meet NEC rules. PVC conduit requires significantly more depth.

Yeah we had a couple of comments going back and forth with conflicting scenarios. The one I was responding too was stating exposed above ground conduit, where EMT is often better than PVC due to sun exposure. Ridged is of course even better from a durability perspective, but a real hassle to deal with.

Burying EMT in soil or concrete is generally a bad idea and quickly leads to some serious tears - sometimes in a year or two with the right soil or if the concrete is exposed to harsh conditions).

Most codes technically allow it though, sometimes with ‘supplementary corrosion protection’. NEC 358.10(b).

Some electricians use duct tape for the ‘protection’ which is terrible.

Proper pipe wrap is expensive and doing it on your own is a real hassle.

[https://www.electricallicenserenewal.com/Electrical-Continui...] random link with some pictures.

That is one of the areas where plastic really shines - I’ve had great luck with schedule 40 or 80 rated plastic conduit - always go up a step or two in size above what you think you’ll need unless you hate future you. Schedule 80 for anything exposed to impact or exiting/entering the ground or a building.

And if you’re burying something like conduit, it’s almost always better to bury 2 or 3 instead of 1.

Re: I Built a Shed (2020)

#310

Post by lazide »

jefftk wrote: post #145
hinkley wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, I know about the grey PVC but spaced on it. Typically this is for external runs bolted to the side of a building though. Or at least, that’s almost all I ever see it used for. Can you use it for open air horizontal runs? Say between two buildings? Data you want shielded, for the reasons I stated. Stringing Ethernet between buildings often ends in tears.

I ran outdoor-rated cat6 in metal conduit between my house and shed, about 6 feet, and it has worked very well. What do you see as the problem?

The issue is not running cat6 in a conduit (per se).

Original poster was running cat6 in the same conduit as high voltage residential Wiring.

That’s scary. The wires in cat6 can carry a surprising amount of current at 120v and wires get chafed or damaged sometimes.

It can be thermal cycling from load, or weather, or a gorilla yanked on them too hard during installation, or whatever.

That can result in 120v or 240v mains voltage at BIGAMPS (most HACR type breakers and residential panels can sustain 10k Amps for a tiny bit) until the wire vaporizes. That’s routine during things like AC compressor startup.

That can make that random ‘should be harmless’ RJ45 plug an immediate danger to anyone nearby. And since the wire won’t vaporize until there is a sufficiently low impedance path to ground, it can stay dangerous for awhile.

Also, different buildings somewhat often have different ground potentials, so running something low voltage and sensitive to voltage spikes and net current imbalance between buildings like Ethernet tends to not go well sometimes. It’s really hard to tell this is happening too, so it sucks to debug.

6 ft away? Probably not a problem if both buildings are grounded decently. Metal conduit helps with that as it acts as a supplemental ground path to reduce any potential differences.

Hundreds of feet? Can be a problem if you do it much.

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