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Defund the Police meets the crime wave

bariweiss.substack.com

301–310 of 365 posts

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#301
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how can we attract and retain officers that want to do the job? Maybe the job just doesn't make sense in modern America? If police as a concept didn't exist already, no one would create it. If you broke it down into its parts, you find plenty of people who would sign up to handle mental health crisis and plenty of people to sign up to handle quality of life problems. You'd have a third group th…

"If police as a concept didn't exist already, no one would create it." Is there any evidence of that? Seems there are quite a few who support them as-is and many more who want to see minor reforms. What do you mean by quality of life problems? How do we plan to staff in that model given police response time already averages 5 minutes (would it then be 15, or would we have 3x the cost to fill 3x the positions)?

> Is there any evidence of that?

How could there be any evidence of that?

> Seems there are quite a few who support them as-is and many more who want to see minor reforms.

Sure, that's the not the same thing. Many people reflexively back the police because they perceive themselves as benefitting from the status quo or otherwise have it as part of their socio-political identity. Some people back the police because they think they are "good enough" and don't want to think about how to reshape the system. But that isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a hypothetical. We have a list of problems such as theft, drunk driving, speeding, people in mental health crisis, domestic violence, crowd control, etc. In the hypothetical situation where we have all of these problems, but we don't have the police and never had, do you honestly think we'd assign all of these duties to one position?

> What do you mean by quality of life problems?

Cat in a tree, unwanted person, taking a report about a stolen bicycle, responding to a traffic collision. Non-life threatening situations that have absolutely no need for someone with a gun to respond.

>How do we plan to staff in that model given police response time already averages 5 minutes (would it then be 15, or would we have 3x the cost to fill 3x the positions)?

The police are unqualified to handle most of the calls they are called out to. You'd have different teams that respond to different types of calls. Non-armed responders are a hell of a lot cheaper and are able to respond to the majority of calls. You'd have a small group of armed LEOs who would respond to violent crimes in progress, and then you'd have hybrid responses to stuff like domestic violence where you need a social worker as the primary response and an armed person as a secondary security.

You'd construct your force around those principles. Remember, most cops never fire their weapon.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#303
post #271
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some added data to back up what you're saying: https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homi... Increases in Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Kentucky would indicate to me a lack of correlation for various partisan policies driving this.

When I saw Texas, I thought to myself - I bet they mean Austin. And sure enough... Austin is the Portland of Texas. Bringing it up as if it is politically aligned to the right with the rest of Texas makes no sense. On the contrary, if anything it'd support the hypothesis that leftist policies drive crime up.

Portland is significantly safer than most big cities in red states.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#304

Many comments here are pointing out that police haven't been defunded yet. But just threatening to defund a service will lower the quality of that service. The "Defund the police" movement has completely dominated the Internet and mainstream media so it wouldn't surprise me if many cops are moving to smaller towns or changing fields.

Exactly right. If someone tells me that I'll be getting paid less next year (even if it's not going to happen), I will literally do the bare minimum not to get fired.

Which is technically, illegal.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle crime statistics are misleading. It's been reported many times that since the police no longer even show up for shoplifting crimes, business owners no longer bother to report it. Nobody knows what the crime rate actually is as a result. But the accountants at the retail stores know, and they're raising prices, installing armored doors, or simply leaving the city. The local bank branch I patronize now sports a…

spd total spending went up every year 2016 to 2020 i believe. doesnt that suggest the money isnt doing much?

From my discussions with current SPD personnel, the SPD itself is doing a stop work protest. Money In doesn't mean Services Out (MISO), it only reaffirms the thuglike nature of our relationship with the police.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#306
post #231

I am convinced that many police units are an undeclared work to rule campaign. The resulting rise in crime is absolutely expected and will scare the country into backing off from efforts to enact serious reforms. "If we can't do our job like assholes than we are not going to try too hard." seems to be the message. And it absolutely will work.

That has been exactly what I experienced.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#307
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying cops don’t serve and protect? Do you know any who rushed into active mass shooting scenes, which is clearly a dangerous place to be? If you did, then you might think differently. Have cops used undue force? Yes. Are there some that are on a power trip and need to be fired? Yes. That doesn’t change what the police officers I know are like, nor the risks they are taking with every patrol. I think the mai…

Look at the LA times report on the the Torrence police department. A substantial number of officers were texting klan like message and bragging about racially profiling and lying about it. Note the articles refer back to earlier texting scandals in places like SF where recently cops were caught on camera just sitting around watching people rob a dispensary. It’s obvious some cops do not serve and protect, and there a…

> Look at the LA times report on the the Torrence police department. A substantial number of officers were texting klan like message and bragging about racially profiling and lying about it.

LA also has a serious problem with cop gangs[1] that have murdered people.

[1] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/los-ange...

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what sort of petty crimes, that previously had mandatory jail time, are you even thinking of? to me, cutting a bike lock and smash & grabbing are like definitional petty crimes.

Stealing a cellphone can still be a felony based on the amounts we’re talking about. For me there’s a distinction between entering a locked building and stealing a bike locked on the sidewalk. It’s arbitrary I know.

Building? I was discussing cars.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#309
post #303
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I saw Texas, I thought to myself - I bet they mean Austin. And sure enough... Austin is the Portland of Texas. Bringing it up as if it is politically aligned to the right with the rest of Texas makes no sense. On the contrary, if anything it'd support the hypothesis that leftist policies drive crime up.

Portland is significantly safer than most big cities in red states.

When I'm reading/looking at the news from Portland, "safer" is not the first word that comes to my mind. But in this particular case, what I meant is that Austin government has always been very liberal/left leaning, and considering it a typical representative of Texas would be wrong.

Re: Defund the Police meets the crime wave

#310
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If police as a concept didn't exist already, no one would create it." Is there any evidence of that? Seems there are quite a few who support them as-is and many more who want to see minor reforms. What do you mean by quality of life problems? How do we plan to staff in that model given police response time already averages 5 minutes (would it then be 15, or would we have 3x the cost to fill 3x the positions)?

> Is there any evidence of that? How could there be any evidence of that? > Seems there are quite a few who support them as-is and many more who want to see minor reforms. Sure, that's the not the same thing. Many people reflexively back the police because they perceive themselves as benefitting from the status quo or otherwise have it as part of their socio-political identity. Some people back the police because the…

> I'm talking about a hypothetical. We have a list of problems such as theft, drunk driving, speeding, people in mental health crisis, domestic violence, crowd control, etc. In the hypothetical situation where we have all of these problems, but we don't have the police and never had, do you honestly think we'd assign all of these duties to one position?

Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who think that those problems should be beaten into submission by the state.

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