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Web3? I have my DAOts

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Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#301

Post by alexjray »

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

This is the same argument as fiat. The fact that it's paper is not what makes it valuable...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#302

Post by maccolgan »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #280
siwatanejo wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For every winner, there has to be a loser. Completely agree with this sentence. Now, have you happened to frame this sentence in your head when talking about fiat money? Just wondering.

I’d rather get paid in dollars than in JSON metadata and JPGs of apes.

That's actually what dollars is, JSON metadata.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#303

Post by reginold »

Daishiman wrote: post #80
iskander wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I own several crypto-currencies and there hasn't been a single moment in which I thought of buying something with a crypto-currency. This is entirely personal and subjective, but I prefer the user experience of Aave and Yearn to traditional banking with e.g. Chase. I also would way rather make large purchases with crypto (e.g. down payment on a house) compared with wiring money.

I have no idea who would accept crypto as payment given the gigantic price swings.

OpenSea is an online market for digital goods. A majority of the prices are denominated in cryptocurrencies (ie an item is priced at 1 ETH). As measured in USD, OpenSea did 8% of Amazon's volume in a month.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#304

Post by reginold »

diveanon wrote: post #178
iskander wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I own several crypto-currencies and there hasn't been a single moment in which I thought of buying something with a crypto-currency. This is entirely personal and subjective, but I prefer the user experience of Aave and Yearn to traditional banking with e.g. Chase. I also would way rather make large purchases with crypto (e.g. down payment on a house) compared with wiring money.

I agree. Recently purchased a home with a loan from aave polygon and it was pretty painless.

Is there any credit impact or such from paying with a loan?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#305

Post by maccolgan »

derac wrote: post #296
bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

Excuse my ignorance, how does the buyer of the token know it hasn't been redeemed yet?

Embedded expiry, it can't be redeemed before the wine is ready anyway.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#306

Post by maccolgan »

nkuttler wrote: post #285
bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

If you rely on a trusted entity (winery) you don't need a blockchain to do anything you just described.

How are you going to transfer the right to have a wine bottle? By continuously signing legal documents?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#307

Post by dmitriid »

bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267
apatters wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say everyone on the planet is Ethereum enabled tomorrow. What is the business case for the winery to use it in your example? I get that Ethereum or any other crypto can be another payment option for their customers. Beyond that what use does a winery have for a programmable substrate underlying its transactions with customers or suppliers? I'm not saying there is none but if you're going to rip on HN users, fra…

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

> A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made.

Ah. You mean "a centralized entity creates a centralized way of providing and verifying ownership of wine"?

1. How does blockchain factor into this?

2. As always, descriptions like this betray how little crypto-peddlers know about real world. Buying future wine has been a thing as long as there has been wine https://www.winespectator.com/articles/buying-futures-3495

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#308

Post by arcticbull »

bryik wrote: post #292
arcticbull wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wires are often free. My bank (HSBC) charges me nothing for domestic wires, my brokerage (IBKR) charges me nothing for domestic wires, Schwab charges nothing for domestic wires, neither does Fidelity, USAA or Ally - even FTX charges nothing for domestic wires - even though moving USDC-ETH out of FTX and into your wallet costs $25.

> Wires are often free. Do you have a citation for this? The articles I found online suggest fees are almost universal, with only a single bank (Fidelity) offering true $0 wire transfer fees to all customers [0]. 0 - https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-wh...

Here's references, although it looks like Ally and USAA have started charging fees since I looked.

HSBC offer free wires for Premier customers. [1]

IBKR offers the first domestic wire per month free, subsequent $10. [2]

Schwab also offers 1 free per month for qualified customers. [3]

Fidelity offers free wires. [4]

FTX offers free wires ("We are not currently charging for wire deposits or withdrawals.") [5]

Chase Premier Plus and Sapphire checking do not charge wire fees. [6]

TD Bank offers 1 free wire transfer per statement cycle. [7]

Citigold accounts offer free wires. [8]

CIT Bank depending on balance. [9]

They're not always free, to be sure - most of the low-end accounts charge for them, but then, those low-end accounts charge for practically everything. That said, TD Bank, Fidelity, Schwab, IBKR all offer at least 1 free wire per month for all customers.

If you have any meaningful balances or monthly income, you shouldn't ever pay for wires. Every retail bank offers free wires for qualifying customers to the best of my knowledge.

[1] https://www.us.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/us/docs/pdf/deposit... p.3

[2] https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14718

[3] https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-indivi...

[4] https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/choose-eft-or-bank...

[5] https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360043579273-Fees

[6] https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/persona...

[7] https://www.feeds.td.com/en/document/oao/pdf/1_fees.pdf

[8] https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=WireTransf...

[9] https://www.cit.com/cit-bank/resources/schedule-of-fees

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#309

Post by cormacrelf »

tshaddox wrote: post #289
EugeneG wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Blockchain says I own this case of wine... but the other guy wont give me my wine! Who do I call? The physical, centralized police and the centralized legal system that back it. Without that legal system recognizing and honoring it, it's worthless. And if it all depends on my centralized legal system, then who cares about the decentralized blockchain. Might as well put it in a table in a database instance runnin…

You could say the same thing about property deeds, contracts, etc. The fact that the laws of physics still apply in the world and thus people can still physically take things from you, harm you, etc. is hardly an argument against any specific method for establishing and recording ownership or contracts.

> This says I (should) own this case of wine... but the other guy wont give me my wine! Who do I call?

Answer: You have a cause of action for breach of contract. In UK/US/Aus/Canada/etc, you can "call" / take it to a court, and they may grant you the remedy known as specific performance, which is essentially a court order to do the thing that was promised. This remedy is available because the thing to be done was the transfer of property. The remedy is part of the law of Equity, a set of doctrines and principles that has been in development since the 13th century. It got its big break with people complaining to the King of England that "the law is too harsh, it should be fair!!!" and went from there, eventually becoming a huge body of law about exactly what it means to make the law fair, what principles to follow when doing that, and how to deal with the many categories of unfairness that come up regularly.

You might look at the DAO hack in this context and think, the Ethereum folks really threw out the baby with the bathwater when they decided to invent a new financial system that didn't have to play by the existing rules. Many people talk about ICOs etc taking us back to the 19th century and the Wild West, but smart contracts take us back hundreds of years further back, with echoes of literally the first people to complain to the King demanding a writ to remedy the injustice of the Common Law. If since then blockchain enthusiasts have come up with something better than Equity, I would ask that they let us know.

Main message from the people in The System to you: We have thought of all of these problems before, and we have solved them all before, and if ye who have spurned the legal system come running for help, ... we will actually welcome you with open arms, like we aspire to do for everyone else.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#310

Post by dmitriid »

reginold wrote: post #303
Daishiman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea who would accept crypto as payment given the gigantic price swings.

OpenSea is an online market for digital goods. A majority of the prices are denominated in cryptocurrencies (ie an item is priced at 1 ETH). As measured in USD, OpenSea did 8% of Amazon's volume in a month.

Had anyone tried to convert those fictional tokens to actual usable money, you'd very quickly find out that the actual volume is about 0%.
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