Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates • Hacker News Board

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#301

Post by Notanothertoo » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

throwaway4220 wrote: post #215

bko wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still r…

If fewer people dying/getting sick is a political goal, then more people dying/getting sick so that the current administration gets voted out can also be a political goal. I'm not a fan of the situation, but you're acting like it's forced sterilization. It's just a vaccine with a very safe profile. For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations e…

It's a 'new' tech with a lot of shady political hand waving that impacts your body. Like redefining vaccine, a rushed testing process and... oh yea the feds waived all legal liabilities for the private entities that developed it.

I think given the context that if your under 65 you are more likely to have medical complications driving to the grocery store its a pretty understandable perspective.

Also the mandate has no exception for natural immunityI. It is I had it and no symptoms of it except I couldn't taste anything, given above, I why would I get a vaccine.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#302

Post by tastyfreeze » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

cmh89 wrote: post #295

tastyfreeze wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

Is being told to wear clothes or get fired coercion? Do you find that acceptable?

Being told to wear clothes or get fired does not require that I get an injection that can cause harm to me. These two things are not equal.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#303

Post by oceanplexian » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #263

odessacubbage wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>checklists have always existed this is also the first time where the vaccine industry and the broader public health space have been put under this kind of scrutiny and the combination of politicization, outright lies and deception over masks and policy in both directions and the overall visibility of the sausage making process happens to be occurring alongside a decline of trust in institutional expertise. when most…

I don't think you can argue that it's the medical profession's fault that this issue has become politicized without acknowledging that the GOP deserves most of the blame here. Nearly every common-sense measure implemented during this pandemic has been derided by the right as some sort of unacceptable infringement on individual rights. Not saying those in power have gotten it all right 100% of the time; I'm especially…

> Nearly every common-sense measure implemented during this pandemic has been derided by the right as some sort of unacceptable infringement on individual rights.

It's not common sense if a plurality of people don't agree with it. Denying children in-person schooling for a year wasn't "common sense", cancelling elective procedures like cancer screenings wasn't "common sense", forcing people to wear masks outdoors wasn't "common sense", and so on. Lots of people were denied rights in these cases and would consider those measures unacceptable.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#304

Post by cmh89 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #177

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced to take the medicine. They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. If they refused to take the vaccine, that is their choice, period. They cannot claimed they are being forced because they are given an choice in the first place. They are given a free will with their decision. Thousands of T…

This is an incredibly weak argument and the courts have already ruled similar issues. The government can’t violate your right to free speech. They also can’t “ask” a private company to censor you as it effectively the same thing. Telling someone “its your choice but if you don’t do it you’ll lose your livelihood” is not a choice at all.

Choices have consequences. I have the choice to stop wearing clothes to my job and the consequence of that choice is that my job would fire me.

The ability of the government to establish vaccination requirements is long established. It's only becoming a hot topic now because anti-science folks have been programmed to fear a safe and effective vaccine.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#305

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #150

cies wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced to take the medicine. They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. If they refused to take the vaccine, that is their choice, period. They cannot claimed they are being forced because they are given an choice in the first place. They are given a free will with their decision. Thousands of T…

[deleted]

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#306

Post by dham » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #172

primoJS wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity is preventable in 95+% of cases, maybe insurance companies should deny coverage to ~40% of the US?

Smokers pay higher life insurance premiums, right? Risk-adjusted health insurance premiums for preventable lifestyle issues is a great idea. Couple the above with with a ban on advertising pharmaceuticals and we would see a 50% reduction in per capita health care spend almost overnight.

But what about people who had Covid before or after vaccines existed? No need to punish them

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#307

Post by quickthrowman » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #3

> Doughty said the CMS lacked the authority to issue a vaccine mandate that would require more than 2 million unvaccinated healthcare workers to get a coronavirus shot. > "There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million healthcare workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency," wrote Doughty. That's a good point. You can agree that its within the federal authority to mand…

> That's a good point. You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representatives rather than some agency (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) that I have never heard of until now and whose head is appointed by one person.

Are you aware that Federal regulatory agencies are a result of Congress delegating their power, mostly to the executive branch? Congress has already delegated their authority…

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#308

Post by beerandt » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #278

coredog64 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schenk was overturned because it was a bad decision. In general, “fire in a crowded theater” is my heuristic for “this person doesn’t know what they’re talking about”. This is the top Google result for “fire in a crowded theater”: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

Use the more modern version it and yell “I have a bomb”.

You got the premise wrong, not the phrasing.

With firecodes what they are today, a bomb is a more comparable danger to what a fire was 100 yrs ago, anyway.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#309

Post by pkilgore » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #174

pkilgore wrote: post #44

This is a temporary injunction not a ruling on the merits. Just like Democratic judges doing this to Trump, it's far more likely to be influenced by politics of the particular Judge or Court of Appeals that any meaningful statement of the law (which it is not).

1. Judges are not supposed to be partisan 2. I'm not aware of any similar cases being brought under the Trump administration.

1. I'm a former Federal litigator. LMAO. And both Parties here. Welcome to America. That's why they filed this in LA + roll up to 11th Cir. Dems file in WA or HI which rolls to the 9th. State Courts are infinitely worse based on the different experience of close friends working in Chicago area v. Northern Indiana.

2. Every temporary injunction issued in the litigation surrounding the wall and Muslim ban was conducted with the Democratic version of this same strategy.

This is the game. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. We will learn the law in time.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#310

Post by 4903000 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

lpcvoid wrote: post #237

Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc? Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science?

You would need to exert significant physical force upon me to inject a vaccine into me when I am not willing to subject myself to it. As per the universal human right to security of person, I have an equal right to refuse vaccination. You are advocating for the dissolution of universal human rights that arise from physical reality. As a human, I will have to disagree with you.