Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#301

Post by LAC-Tech » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

basedbertram wrote: post #81

InternetPerson wrote: post #67

For me, one nice thing about working from home all the time now is that I don't have to listen to everyone's annoyingly loud mechanical keyboards. I kinda hope this fad dies before I have to work in an office again...

Oh wow, do people really bring mechanical keyboards to the office? I thought that was generally considered a no-no.

If you think that's bad, wait until you hear about these people (sales, customer service, project managers) who actually talk on the phone while in the office.

You'll miss the sound of cherry mx blues in no time.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#302

Post by nsxwolf » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:07 AM UTC

archarios wrote: post #172

csdvrx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

You don't seem to understand that you don't need to bottom out your switches to actuate them. I have Kailh Copper switches which barely require me to push them down very far in order to actuate. Also they're pretty quiet. You can have your preferences, but blanketly saying that all mech keyboards "require too much strength" and are "loud" is wrong. The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases.

Over the years I’ve become convinced that not “bottoming out” is a fetish that most people should not be trying to adopt.

“Bottoming out” is just “typing”. You press the key. Find a keyboard that feels good when you press the keys.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#303

Post by sowbug » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #234

wyclif wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your best bet for mechanical switches that aren't too noisy are probably Cherry MX Browns.

I’m using silent red and I don’t find them too noisy. One of the main advantages of a mechanical is that they are often programmable so you no longer have to rely on software based methods to change key mappings. Caps lock is Escape everywhere all the time.

Silent reds are also known as pink, in case anyone is looking for them. They were exactly what I was looking for after trying brown (still too loud and a little too much force required), silver (way too many false clicks when I rested on the home row), and various Zilents (OK, until I tried the pinks and realized I don't like tactile switches at all).

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#304

Post by r5Khe » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #210

comboy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My HHKB Hybrid Type-S is definitely less noisy than MX-Brown (at least in WASD keyboards edition). It may be more silent than my typing on macbook air, but it's hard to compare because it produces lower frequencies, definitely nicer sound than macbook keyboard to me and never even thought about it as noisy.

That's the exact HHKB I have and trust me, it's a noisy rattly mess compared to a good mech. Like just lightly glide your fingers across the keys and you should feel/hear the rattle. That same rattle continues as you type, it's just mixed in with the sound of bottoming out. For comparison, my mech is a solid feeling piece of aluminum, the keys have 0 wobble, and there are no rattles at all. It's night and day, I coul…

I currently use an HHKB (for almost 10 years now) and I love it. But RSI has pushed me towards building my own split ergonomic ortho keyboard. What switches are you currently using on your daily driver mech? I got some 67g Zilents that I'm hoping give me a fairly close feel to my Topres when lubricated.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#305

Post by alyandon » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #208

archarios wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to understand that you don't need to bottom out your switches to actuate them. I have Kailh Copper switches which barely require me to push them down very far in order to actuate. Also they're pretty quiet. You can have your preferences, but blanketly saying that all mech keyboards "require too much strength" and are "loud" is wrong. The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases.

> The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases. Being a cheapskate but wanting a mechanical keyboard with swappable switches, I bought a Redragon K552 off Amazon (88 key version) for $28. The Outemu reds are fine, but I swapped the alphabet and control keys for browns. I have no regrets.

I bought a Tecware Phantom 104-key keyboard with outemu browns for $50. Per-key RGB and came with replacement switches - no regrets here either.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#306

Post by r5Khe » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:23 AM UTC

mysecretaccount wrote: post #286

vehemenz wrote: post #216

Topre switches are great! But can someone explain the draw of HHKBs? Aside from nerd street cred, that is. A lot of programmers swear by them, but I don't understand why. Let's talk about the layout. As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl—but inexplicably, there are huge gaps where the regular Ctrl keys would be. There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or k…

> As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl I think typically vim users will map caps lock to ctrl and use ctrl+[ when escape is needed.

I've been a happy HHKB user for almost 10 years and a Vim user slightly longer, and this is exactly what I do (though ctrl is already in the right place on the HHKB). I believe it was one of the first things I figured out in Vim, because it was so annoying to me to have to go all the way up to the escape key all the time. Ctrl+[ is such a pleasant little chord to hit.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#307

Post by perlpimp » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

I sport Cooler Master NovaTouch TKL with Cherry Stems, its ok. its the keyboard I use when i need to go fast and get the keyboard out of the way. Its smooth its fast and I like it, but not for a slow ride.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#308

Post by bastijn » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:40 AM UTC

There are many people in this thread recommending cherry mx red/brown/blue. There are also as many stating mechanical keyboards are not for them, often referring to same switches.

Those that would like to explore a bit more, in the custom keyboard world the aforementioned switches are mostly considered starters. More popular, people use switches like Gateron Black Ink V2, Alpacas, Tangerines for linear. U4T, Zealios, Kiwis for tactiles. And about 100 different alternatives available based on taste [0].

Combined with a more premium quality board that fits your typing angle and keycaps in a profile you like (you have cherry profile but also KAT, KAM, DSA, and many more to fit your liking) it may differ considerably from pre-built options.

Not saying it will be for you, but discarding mechanical keyboards on base of what the pre-built market offers is not the best measure of things. It is like saying you hate scissor switch keyboards because you typed on an Acer laptop once.

P.s. Be careful as you will quickly learn topre keyboards are not that expensive.

[0] https://www.theremingoat.com/ - popular switch reviewer

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#309

Post by randomfool » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

papandada wrote: post #226

I skipped the whole mechanical keyboard acquisition cycle (thanks to a comment or two from HN), bought a Niz, totally happy with it and best keyboard I've used, haven't been tempted to keep searching.

10 year Topre user (Realforce 87U 30-45g variable)- recently picked up a Niz and it's been an absolute dream. Tactile, light (35g uniform), quiet. This keyboard is awesome.

Could never find Cherry MX Blue/Browns which worked for me- always triggered RSI in my outer wrists. Chiclets caused problems in my fingertips from bottoming out.

Topres gave me a decade of heavy coding after battling RSI and I love them for that. But this Niz is making me smile. I'll get another Niz before I go back to my Realforce.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#310

Post by donatj » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 6:57 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #258

bayindirh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a bunch of old Sun Microsystems mechanical keyboards at the office, and they're not loud. I use a Cherry MX Brown equipped keyboard and it's not loud either. Does everyone use "Blue" switches over there? BTW, I don't believe mechanical keyboards are a fad. They're much better than the better rubber dome keyboards. Especially as they age.

Did Sun ever make mechanicals? I mainly recall the type 5 but it was rubber dome. The ones that came after were like cheap $10 pc keyboards.

The majority were rubber dome, and all the Sun keyboards I own are, but they made some mechanical type 5’s. They pop up on eBay once in a while. I am not sure the deal with their existence.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78888.0