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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

niemanlab.org

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#301

Post by linspace »

mercy_dude wrote: post #173

Good. The worst experience I ever had was with NY Times when I wanted to unsubscribe I had to go through multiple call/chats with a person and it was almost impossible since it was hard to get in touch with one. I am glad FTC is doing something others are afraid to do.

Ah, lucky you. I read your comment on my phone and came to my desktop to type comfortably my rant.

Have you ever tried to cancel a loan? The following story may or not apply to you. It happened in a small country called Spain:

Some time ago I bought a car. They offer you a very nice discount if you, instead of paying upfront, finance the purchase. Why? I asked the seller, it makes no sense. He gave me a list of more or less valid reasons, leaving the most important out: the draconian interest rate, which I inmediatly noticed. Noticing also the lack of integrity I decided to play along and took the loan with the intent of cancelling it ASAP. To summarize: it took something like 10 calls and saying on the last one that I was going to send a certified mail and forbidding my bank to pay a single €. I paid the loan and saved several thousand euros, even after paying "cancellation costs".

The whole enterprise has changed my view about regulation. It was regulation that gave me the right to cancel the loan against their will, and capped the cancellation costs, which I find it amazing they are even allowed, to compensate "for lost earnings". After the 2008 crisis a lot of regulation has been put in place affecting the banks. It's incredible they are allowing still this kind of scam to buy a car.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#302

Post by speeder »

codingclaws wrote: post #114
lagadu wrote: post #29

In Portugal the law makes it so you can cancel any service using the same means that you used to subscribe it, so if they support subscribing online, unsubscribing also has to be doable the same way; same goes for via phone, personal or whatnot. It makes sense, prevents service providers from making it too difficult to terminate a contract.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

I am from Brazil, and here speed limits are literally dangeorus.

1. In my city people mostly ignore speed limits, because often they are unreasonable.

2. At same time people are so used to the above, that they ignore speed limits in very unsafe places.

3. I don't ignore the limits myself since I am a new-ish driver, but I almost crashed multiple times, either because I was with my eyes too gluted at the speedometer, or because everyone else was ignoring the speed limit and almost crashed into my rear.

4. I got fined for crossing speed limit anyway, when I was trying to understand the fine, I found out they been placing radars on steep hills on fast roads, so you have basically two choices there: climb the hill using higher gears, and cross speed limit, or slow down until you can use lower gears, and risk people crashing into you.

5. In a specific very steep hill they put the speed limit so low that the only way to climb that hill is actually go fast as you can until right before the radar, brake hard, immediately put first gear, and shove your foot in the accelerator pedal again and resume the climb tires screaming, if you attempt to climb the whole hill slower your car is likely to stall, thanks to Brazillian popularity of really low power cars, our cars are literally illegal in some european cities because of how underpowered they are and thus dangerous in hilly places.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#303

Post by alisonkisk »

koheripbal wrote: post #287
wonderwonder wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange that this hit HN today. 2 days ago I wondered what the cancellation policy was for the WSJ and checked. At the time I did not plan on cancelling but after finding out that it was "call to cancel" I called at that moment. I cannot stand the policy where it takes 3 seconds to sign up online but you have to call in to cancel. If I can help it I wont give money to companies that do it. In WSJ defense (barely) it…

Getting the physical WSJ paper is ridiculous, but the digital subscription to the WSJ is great. It's the only one I pay for happily.

Can you cancel using the same medium you subscribed? That's the topic of the thread, not the current quality of the content.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#304

Post by foobarbecue »

wonderwonder wrote: post #264
mercy_dude wrote: post #173

Good. The worst experience I ever had was with NY Times when I wanted to unsubscribe I had to go through multiple call/chats with a person and it was almost impossible since it was hard to get in touch with one. I am glad FTC is doing something others are afraid to do.

Strange that this hit HN today. 2 days ago I wondered what the cancellation policy was for the WSJ and checked. At the time I did not plan on cancelling but after finding out that it was "call to cancel" I called at that moment. I cannot stand the policy where it takes 3 seconds to sign up online but you have to call in to cancel. If I can help it I wont give money to companies that do it. In WSJ defense (barely) it…

I have wanted to cancel WSJ for over a year now but their process kept me from doing it. I started a few times and then was like I really don't have time for this nonsense right now. I wonder if I do it now if I can get my subscription fees refunded.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#305

Post by tempodox »

devilbunny wrote: post #268
codingclaws wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

> speed traps that just trigger a red light Much better than what I've seen in my (US) city: speed limit 30 mph, but lights timed for 40-45 mph to get a continuous green light down the one-way street. Either you speed, opening you to tickets, or you stop needlessly on lights that are set for a faster speed than you are traveling.

I'd call that a “dark pattern in the physical world”.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#306

Post by GuB-42 »

Several times, I've seen that the easiest way to cancel was to block the payment. Your subscription won't last long if you don't pay.

I guess that in theory, they could sue, but not only it is a small sum, they also probaby don't want to expose their dark patterns to a court of law.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#307

Post by petilon »

watchdogtimer wrote: post #299

This is one of the biggest benefits of using a virtual credit card from services like privacy.com or Capital One's Eno. Just create a card online specific to the service to pay for it, then cancel the card when you want to unsubscribe. Capital One lets you create an unlimited number of cards at no charge.

Not quite. Now the business can send you to collections.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#308

Post by danielvaughn »

This kind of practice isn't only in the comms industry. I had a gym membership back when I lived in NYC. Called them up one day, got a membership within just a few minutes over the phone.

A few years later when I moved, I called to tell them I'd have to cancel. I had forgotten to cancel before I moved, so I was already in another state (Florida). They told me I had to come into the gym physically to cancel, even when I told them I had already moved.

I called several times, asking everyone including the manager to just let me cancel over the phone. I remember saying "ok so you're telling me I have to literally fly to NYC just to cancel my membership with you?" And they said "I'm sorry sir, that's our policy." After a week or so, I threatened them with a lawsuit, and then they complied.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#310

Post by alisonkisk »

koheripbal wrote: post #291
88913527 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with access to a public library (photo ID will get you a free library card) can access eLibrary services that get updated daily. No need to pay for NYT, for WSJ, or any major national newspaper. By paying taxes, you're already paying for digital access to this media. I applaud the FTC's decision but I wish people realized there's more practical means for accessing media that is more frequently locked behind pa…

Not only is this not true everywhere, it can also be much more cumbersome to access. Not to mention that supporting quality journalism is probably one of the best things you can do today to make the world better.

I agree, and thats why I donate to ProPublica, which is free and doesn't use it's reporting as reputation laundering for an Opinion section that promotes billionaire profits ahead of humanity.

Also, using the library is supporting journalism. The library pays for a digital license

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