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My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

mattlakeman.org

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Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#301

Post by hilbert42 »

otherme123 wrote: post #270
kenneth wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first phase of the experiment was to have a free zone in the Platzspitz park, with a needle exchanges, and no interference to drug sales and use. The park became known as "needle park." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platzspitz_park They shut it down in '92, which led to junkies spreading throughout the city, particularly on and around Langstrasse. It wasn't until a real crackdown that things got better. They trie…

When a non-Swiss person talks about "the Swiss heroing/drug experiment", they are referring specifically to the HAT program, and not to a free-for-drug park. It's obvious that if you put all the junkies of a county in a single park , without even the minimal hygienic measures, you create a mess. That's not laissez-faire, that's a mess, but to their credit at least they tried something different than the cycle "heroin…

"But you are not a criminal, and thus we will take a medical approach."

Absolutely, it's harm minimization for both the addict and for the rest of society.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#302

Post by qaq »

diordiderot wrote: post #285
qaq wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they really though? The most common response I get when I ask people why they just don't move to EU outside of family reasons is that after tax comp is way less than US. It never clicks though why is it way less.

The problem is you're asking people who reasonable could move to Europe. You live in a class bubble. I'd imagine you don't know beyond a surface level understanding. Visit the cotton belts of the south, the dying towns of the Midwest. Where most people don't know what the EU is. Most of Britain didn't know and they were in it. Those people don't have the option and probably don't know the difference.

They also most likely support Trump and not left leaning policies.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#303

Post by denton-scratch »

4thwaywastrel wrote: post #295
colinmhayes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you understand how good heroin feels. Nothing comes close, especially not Tennis or a wonderful community. I tried heroin once, and I regret it every day, because I am 100% positive that I will never again be as happy as I was that day. If I didn't have what is effectively a dream job I'm sure that I'd be a heroin addict.

I can't be sure because I've never tried heroin, but it might be possible to feel that good without drugs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism

Dhyana meditation comes with its own risks. In general, "religion" is quite dangerous stuff, and should not be fed to children.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#304

Post by qaq »

kingkawn wrote: post #298
qaq wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they really though? The most common response I get when I ask people why they just don't move to EU outside of family reasons is that after tax comp is way less than US. It never clicks though why is it way less.

Straw man emptiness

I am writing this from Ireland so unlike many people who like to theorize I actually tried it :)

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#305

Post by denton-scratch »

refurb wrote: post #208
evilos wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has such a strong effect for most people compared to food, sex, alcohol, etc. Obviously I don't know how strong (and I really really hope I never know, unless I'm on my death bed etc) but by all accounts it is overwhelming. Everything is toxic at the right dosage, and heroin is pure toxic pleasure.

That's the point, it's not. At least not any more than other drugs. Plenty of people try heroin or opioids and hate it.

I was spiked with heroin once. It didn't impress me - it made me feel a bit ill.

I've tried coke - good stuff, in good company, for an evening. It didn't impress me much.

I guess I was just lucky. I have an "addictive personality" - I drink way too much, and I'm a heavy smoker. I could easily have fallen into one of those holes, if I'd actually enjoyed those drugs. I found psychedelics much more engaging; but they're generally not addictive - after 3 days of continuous LSD use, no amount of LSD will get you tripping again. It's anti-addictive.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#306

Post by brailsafe »

evilos wrote: post #209
brailsafe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need heroin to reveal this to you. That's in part why burnout is a thing. Just try really hard to do what you think is right, and then be shown that what you put your energy into is basically worthless. Then you start thinking about what ultimate prospects every hypothetical financial reward could result in, and it's pretty bleak out there. Then once you're ready to get back into it after being fired, becau…

That's pretty specific, you alright?

I'm working on it ;) No heroin here thankfully

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#307

Post by DevoidSimo »

ryan_lane wrote: post #164
TimTheTinker wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree; substance prohibition in any form (except perhaps for nuclear fuel and the like) has a long history of causing an incredibly wide range of societal problems. But removing prohibition is a far cry from providing free heroin to addicts ... I understand the argument about removing the black market, but after seeing San Francisco in person it's hard to agree that free drugs and paraphernalia makes…

They don't give out free heroin in SF. There are needle exchange programs, and a small number of safe usage sites. Also, you're assuming most of the addicts are heroin addicts. Quite a few of them are meth addicts, who are harder to reach, partially because the type of meth they're getting causes severe psychosis. Giving meth addicts forms of meth that are produced more cleanly would reduce the level of psychosis and…

Is it impurities in meth that give you psychosis? I was of the impression that often it was due to sleep deprivation due to being on meth and not sleeping for days.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#308

Post by denton-scratch »

watwut wrote: post #232
refurb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it scary? Heroin isn’t unique in this aspect. I had a friend tell me “when I had the first drink ever my first thought was ‘I want to feel like this the rest of my life’”. He was sucked in right away and struggled for years to break that hold. Plenty of people feel that way and practically kill themselves with alcohol, opioids, cocaine and even food. And plenty of people take opioids equivalent to heroin and s…

I really don't think alcohol causes such a strong reaction in most people. It is pleasant, but not to that extreme. Also, people dont get addicted to alcohol that fast. It takes a lot more usage to develop physical dependency.

This is correct. You have to work on an alcohol addiction. It takes a few months to develop a dependency severe-enough that withdrawal might result in seizures. Short of that, you can just quit, if you can get time off work for a few days in bed.

You also have to work on a heroin addiction, so I have heard. It simply isn't true that "one dose and you're hooked". People become addicts because they want to be addicts, for whatever reason. Part of it is lifestyle; part of it is the desire to be dependant, so you get to not have to be responsible for yourself.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#309

Post by denton-scratch »

krater23 wrote: post #141
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a story - can't find the reference now - of a doctor who got addicts to replace their drug addiction with exercise addictions. From what I recall the program was quite successful at making the patients functional, but didn't really do much for the underlying issues - just made the addiction itself less damaging.

Makes sense. I talked about it with a friend of mine, a ex-junky. He said, all people he know from the Methadon-program are dead because they just died on alcohol. He said, they don't take Heroin because Heroin make addicted, they take Heroin because they needed 'the hammer on the head'. They switched from Heroin to a more damaging addiction. Why this should not work with less damaging addictions too?

There is no organ in the body that isn't harmed by alcohol. This is what doctors have told me. The ethanol molecule is tiny, and can pass through any membrane.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#310

Post by tremon »

stef25 wrote: post #150
bamboozled wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a really complicated problem, other countries have tried different things that have worked. It's complicated for some people to admit the 'war on drugs' has failed maybe, but that's a different issues all together.

What's complicated is that it's not really the drugs, it's the fact that people experience their lives in such a miserable way that oblivion through opiates is a better option. IMHO this is because of alienation, a loss of community, strong personal bonds, lack of goals. There's a famous experiment that sums it all up perfectly - the one where animals were given an unlimited supply of cocaine and they took it until t…

There's a famous experiment that sums it all up perfectly

I think you're referring to the Rat Park experiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park), and (as always) its conclusions are not as solid as the myth implies. That's not to say its results have been disproven, but they haven't been confirmed with other studies either.

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