Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 372 posts

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#301

Post by ryantgtg »

altantiprocrast wrote: post #193
blacktriangle wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Apple Music has gone to shit. iTunes keeps managing to get worse and worse, and they're pushing hard to pretend you don't have your own collection to get you to buy into the subscription model. At this point I'm going back to owning a seaparate dedicated music device that is totally divorced from the computer. There's just something intentional about walking over to a CD player or record player, picking out an a…

https://www.navidrome.org/ might help (I'm unaffiliated, just sharing)

No sure if the parent (grandparent?) would find this helpful: but here’s the setup I use that provides a cool amount of options.

I use a Yamaha receiver (R-N803) that has their MusicCast software on it. And I use these various inputs:

- CD

- Phono

- USB. A little teensy usb loaded with music I’ve collected for the last 25 years - however, I’ve cleaned it up so it’s not filled with random things that makes my wife go “what is all this stuff! I just want to see MY music!”

- I have a Navidrome server running on a pi, with a hardrive connected to it. It basically contains the USB + all the other random stuff. This is played via the bluetooth input and Play:Sub app on my phone.

- Likewise I play the bandcamp app via Bluetooth through the receiver, and spotify as well (I mostly use spotify for listening to the back catalogs of established artists).

- Net Radio. Access thousands of radio stations, worldwide, that stream their service. It’s pretty cool!

There’s more. But, point is the setup is cool and diverse and it’s pretty easy to use.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#302

Post by sharken »

ryandrake wrote: post #220
RHSeeger wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple can already technically do anything they want to compromise the security of your device in the next software update But they're making it easier for governments to come along and force them to do more. Or even for themselves, but I tend to think they're less of an issue. I know "it's a slippery slope" gets overused... but if you keep taking baby slips down that slope, it only gets slipperier. You should avoid…

Anyone can imagine a hypothetical future feature and oppose it. What if Apple one day replaces all my music with Best of ABBA? That would be terrible, but they haven't done or proposed it, so why argue about it?

Could anyone have imagined law enforcement using Corona contact-tracing data for other purposes ?

Because that actually happened, and in a democratic country even.

So it's not hard to imagine what less democratic countries could demand of Apple.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/queensland-coronaviru...

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#303

Post by dhfjskh »

siscia wrote: post #35

So I was ignorant on the issue and completely against the approach of Apple. Then HN taught me that any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government. At this point, the approach taken by Apple seems like the best one to me, if you don't want to store pictures in clear on your servers. What other technical approach are people advocating for? Another point…

>Then HN taught me that any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government.

That's not true though.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#304

Post by 14 »

JK_2234 wrote: post #5
zpeti wrote: post #3

I really hope there is enough momentum to stop this. It's definitely the last straw for me in terms of apple products. I haven't bought a new iphone for 4 years, I'm slowly trying to switch to a lightphone (non smartphone). My mac needs a change but I will probably switch to linux. It's absolutely ridiculous what apple has become. The exact opposite of what they used to represent, when I loved them. God rest Steve Jo…

Comments from a different post shows this is "Presumably to implement E2E encryption, while at the same time helping the NCMEC to push for legislation to make it illegal to offer E2E encryption without this backdoor." If this is the case, then It is coming to every device (not just apple) or E2E will be made illegal(or a backdoor).

End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is a system of communication where only the communicating users can read the messages. In principle, it prevents potential eavesdroppers – including telecom providers, Internet providers, and even the provider of the communication service – from being able to access the cryptographic keys needed to decrypt the conversation.[1]

End-to-end encryption is intended to prevent data being read or secretly modified, other than by the true sender and recipient(s). The messages are encrypted by the sender but the third party does not have a means to decrypt them, and stores them encrypted. The recipients retrieve the encrypted data and decrypt it themselves.

Because no third parties can decipher the data being communicated or stored, for example, companies that provide end-to-end encryption are unable to hand over texts of their customers' messages to the authorities.

Would it even be considered end 2 end encryption based on this Wikipedia definition? I don’t think it meets the definition if apple can determine certain files exist in a conversation.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#305

Post by cheald »

neilv wrote: post #26
zpeti wrote: post #3

I really hope there is enough momentum to stop this. It's definitely the last straw for me in terms of apple products. I haven't bought a new iphone for 4 years, I'm slowly trying to switch to a lightphone (non smartphone). My mac needs a change but I will probably switch to linux. It's absolutely ridiculous what apple has become. The exact opposite of what they used to represent, when I loved them. God rest Steve Jo…

I blew my entire weekend trying to move off iPhone, to something more trustworthy (a problem that's getting harder, because of some other things going on): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28111995

I run CalyxOS on a refurbished Pixel device. Works great, very privacy-respecting out of the box. Good at being a device that you actually own.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#306

Post by tpush »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #218
kemayo wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also opt-in, though it's opted in by the parent of the child you're communicating with. If you're talking to adults, or children whose parents don't want to use the service, you're not getting your photos scanned.

Interesting, time for American teens to switch to WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. Kids have sex life finds a way. Has Apple thought this through?

It only applies to children up to age 12 (inclusive).

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#307

Post by pseudalopex »

nicce wrote: post #237
adventured wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What changed is Apple just signaled to the governments of the world what it's willing to do toward abusing user privacy and exactly how it can work. And hey, Apple, if you're willing to do that, why not just go a bit further and do this, because we're asking you to or else (and now we know you're obviously even more morally flexible than what you used to present yourself as). Before that, Apple put up a front that th…

I think I disagree. Current move was improvement for user privacy, compared to what it used to be. Abuse is only on speculation, not on what has actually been done.

Before is speculation. After is too late. When are people allowed to object?

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#308

Post by dont__panic »

zepto wrote: post #280
sneak wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their actions speak louder than their words.

And their actions show that they aren’t likely to do any of the scary things they are being accused of. That’s the point - people keep claiming some nefarious slippery slope, which is of course in the realm of possibility , but is not actually happening.

Apple stores user iCloud backups and their encryption keys on Chinese government-controlled servers in China, and gives the Chinese government full access to those servers. And routinely grants the US government warrantless access to those same backups in the US.

So what actions are you referring to that show they won't do any of those scary things?

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#309

Post by pseudalopex »

nicce wrote: post #249
ryanlol wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting this from? That’s simply not true. It’s perfectly legal to “store images as E2E encrypted”

Encryption itself is not illegal, but it might make harder to comply other legal requirements. I have just heard this many times, and now I read the whole law (curse me). It says on 2258Af part especially that there is no requirement to find evidence of CSAM material all the time. However, if NCMEC especially shares some information about visual depictions and asks to stop redistribution, then provider is required to…

Please show where those legal requirements have been applied to E2E encrypted files.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#310

Post by m4rtink »

Fnoord wrote: post #61
hutzlibu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Might look into pinephone or something similar." Pinephone is my hope, too, but do not expect anything stable soon. That will take some time, probably years. It does not happen on its own, though, they need support now to make it a real alternative and not just a tinker toy.

There's like three major options if you want to run a FOSS smartphone, and I'll sum them up. Pinephone: Cheap. The device isn't very powerful. With people coming from an Apple device, that's a problem. Fairphone 3: Fair. The hardware isn't very powerful either, and the device is more expensive, but the product is better for the people who assembled it and the environment. Librem 5: Open. Even more expensive than Fair…

A slight correction about Sailfish OS - the official/commercial Android emulation layer is only available for officially supported Sony Xperia devices, as can be seen in the table on Jolla Shop:

https://shop.jolla.com/

I do have Xperia X & Xperia 10 II and can confirm Android emulation layern works very well.

You can run Sailfish OS on many other devices thanks to community porting work, but without support for the Jolla provide Android emulation layer. The devices will still run all the many native Sailfish OS apps + ARM compiled flatpaks just fine & the is community work in getting Anbox to run to provide Android emulation on the community ports as well. :)

Post reply on HN