Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#301

Post by silexia » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

Another element is that the government now pays people to stay at home and not work. That is the number one factor. If people did not have money, they would work.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#302

Post by nradov » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #248

nradov wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different because allowing people to work for low wages gives them a chance to improve their skills and move up to higher wage jobs rather than perpetually living off welfare.

Or it traps them in a cycle of poverty where there’s never enough time or money to make the skills necessary to advance. When I worked as a dishwasher or landscaper, I wasn’t building valuable skills to progress my career. Maybe your point holds for some careers, but I’m doubtful it’s relevant to most low-wage (especially non-skilled) labor. I think the point is also diluted when considering there’s almost always mor…

For some people the skills they need to develop first are really basic, like showing up on time and sober, and following basic instructions. We're talking about the lowest tier of the workforce here where the concept of a "career" is kind of alien. Many of them have never been formally employed before and need an opportunity to learn really simple things that most of us take for granted. I think most HN users are disconnected from that reality.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#303

Post by stiray » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

I think that people started to realize, that they can live much better with lower amount of money.

What corona crisis did to me was suddenly figuring out that just, from the pure fact of not leaving home much (or I would rather say, not going into the consumers world any more - I rather went to a forest, hills, rivers, lakes,...), there was an overhead of 500 euros left on my bank account each month. Same life but the unneeded expenses were cut off and interestingly - I didn't miss them at all.

This would (in case I wouldn't love software development) mean that I could go for 500 euros lower wage with a fairly decent life and with far more time for myself.

As time is the only commodity that you cant buy, this seems like a very reasonable way to change my life for the better.

But I am not the one who doesn't like my job. There is probably more than a half of people that don't want to do what they are doing for the wage they get. And with corona, they got out of the system that calls for more money.

Surely they would return back but not under the same conditions. Pay them relevantly more and there will no longer be employee shortages but you will earn less. And it is debatable if this is not what needed to happen.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#304

Post by tsimionescu » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #202

tsimionescu wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this idea is that, beneath some wage floor, workers lose money by working, and would be better off growing food somewhere. The minimum wage is often below this floor, actually - people working minimum wage are often overall paying to work.

Growing food where? Someone owns all the productive farmland and they aren't giving it away. But people who are willing to work hard and get dirty can certainly find jobs in agriculture.

Maybe growing food is a bad example, especially since you may be homeless, though if you do own a house, you can do subsistence farming in almlst any soil, raise a few chicken etc.

A better example could be that rather than working below minimum age in NYC you would be better off moving to a rural area and working there.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#305

Post by renewiltord » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

effingwewt wrote: post #213

vladvasiliu wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you. However, it may not (always) be that simple. The media here in France reports that some industries, in particular restaurants, are having a hard time finding employees, with not enough people applying and even employees who were there before Covid hit leaving. I don't know how actually true this is, but when they (the media) ask people why they won't go back, the main reason doesn't seem to b…

Here in California every restaurant/fast food place is hiring. They all list the things they offer (PTO, 401k-no matching what you put in, and that's it). What they don't put on the signs is what they pay (minimum wage every single time), or the hours (always part time, always weekends, mostly if not always nights. But obviously it's just that no one wants to work, it couldn't possibly be because no one wants part-ti…

Counterexample: https://mobile.twitter.com/auren/status/1419149796284145667/...

I see hiring signs with dollar amounts on them all the time.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#306

Post by tenebrisalietum » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

bjornsing wrote: post #193

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers need employees, and employees need employers. If you have orders to fill, and noone to do the work, you're just as fscked, as if you have bills to pay, and no money to do it. Employers get an added benefit of being able to wait it out a bit, since they generally have more money than workers, and workers have unemployment benefits, which means that they can wait it out (until the benefits stop). The problems…

> Employers need employees, and employees need employers. If you have orders to fill, and noone to do the work, you're just as fscked, as if you have bills to pay, and no money to do it. Na, not really. An employer can just raise their prices until incoming orders and delivery capacity align. That’s a sustainable situation for the employer. There may be some opportunity cost, but they’re doing okay. An employee on th…

Only in monopolistic situations or situations causing everyone to raise prices at the same time would the possibility of "just raise their prices" be workable.

If the price gets too high people will seek alternate suppliers or do without.

Example: We pay a private company to haul trash to the dump. There's many such companies, so if my company raises it's prices, I'll switch to another. We had one company raise its prices recently and everyone switched to another. I'm not sure this company is still around.

Example: Comcast kept raising my cable TV bill. I eventually just ditched it and went Internet only. $200/month for TV isn't worth it.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#307

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

[deleted]

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#308

Post by f0xytr0xy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

[flagged]

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#309

Post by f0xytr0xy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #267

cbozeman wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

I just head this same rap from a blowhard senator who's state is loaded with Covid. "The self-respect that comes with working." Read this like you are nursing a hangover. Americans are fed up with lousy jobs that treat them like crap.

Most likely that senator is from a net-taker state like kentucky or arkansas, one that would be bankrupt without california and new york overpaying the fed to subsidize poor republican states.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#310

Post by varjag » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #172

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the employer perspective: Why would I try to compete with unemployment benefits that are ending in a few months? The situation is temporary and has obviously causal factors that are coming to an end soon (unemployment benefits, school out for summer). Journalists seem to be going out of their way to ignore these and pretend that something else is happening.

The only shitty thing here is, that many companies will fail and close down in the meantime, meaning less jobs openings for people who just lost unemployment benefits.

If there is still demand for their services, other more successful franchises will step in.