Most Silicon Valley “CRUD” startups have fraud baked in. It’s just whose holding the bag in the end that matters. Sometimes it’s the VC funds early in the stage, sometimes it’s the late stage investors ala WeWork SoftBank and usually it’s the retail bag holders post IPO.
Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Con-artists will mimic the people that actually know their shit. Ah yes. A certain billionaire promises robo-taxis and full Level 5 autonomy by 2020, and then in 2021, admits self-driving is hard as FSD is still Level 2, after duping their own customers on buying ahead of their 'promises'. This billionaire in 2019, surely knew what he was talking about. /s > In order to tell the difference you need to actually look…
FSD was advertised as paying for something that would come in the future - I bought it under that assumption (and so did everyone I know that has it). That was and remains true. They've continued to make progress towards it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6bOwQdCJrc Autopilot is different and isn't advertised as level 5 - 'autopilot' implies fancy lane keeping not turn by turn point to point autonomy. Elon's FSD ti…
I think Trevor was counting on people not being able to tell the difference. They named their Tesla-competing company “Nikola,” which is a bit astounding when you think of it.
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
I browse through a lot of niche investing social media groups. One of the more liked posts on a Nikola investment group was, "If "they" cared about the future, the earth and the renewable energy issue, they would let whatever Trevor did slide." Surprisingly, I saw similar posts about Musk on the Thailand rescuer tweet and the price too high tweet. You are not betting against the fundamentals or the realities of the s…
I'm not sure creating a multibillion dollar vaporware fraud shell company and being a dick on Twitter are comparable sins.
The sin is the same: Being successful when I'm not. Off with their heads!
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
This person is a troll. The Tesla semi is not “barely functional”. They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Production was already to be started except for a shortage of battery cells (due to the extreme popularity of their existing cars and powerwalls/megapacks) which they are working to remedy.
> This person is a troll. That's a baseless accusation, where are the mods? > They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Prototypes, with zero evidence they can achieve the claimed specifications. If you know otherwise, please, show us all. They are dependent on 4680 cells, which do not exist. They don't even have a factory, and they claimed…
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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plenty to criticize Tesla and Elon about, to be sure, but a lot of Elon's predictions have turned out to be true at least when it comes to passenger vehicles. What they've done with the EV market for consumers is nothing short of remarkable. Obviously Solar and Semi are a different matter. Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggerati…
> Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected. > He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydr…
Even if you draw the funny arbitrary line of “Elon wasn’t a founder” - the previous founders were technical as well.
But taking Tesla from a lotus kit, to the brand it is today makes me think he really is a founder.
No comment on the Stanford piece, though it seems believable…
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is surprising....do they even have a car in the works?
A friend just bought 2000$ in shares, because "its cheap right now". The only thing the stock price reflects is how valuable the stock is. Nothing more, nothing less. If each person of earth decided that their life goal was to own 100 nikola shares "to feel alive" or "own a piece of their failure" or whatever, their stock price would skyrocket, and stay high as long as everybody holds. Those who value stock in terms…
>or dislike
The disliked ones tend to get valued kind of fairly as even if you hate them they pay dividends or similar.
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
When your RSU and ESPP vest, open your brokerage and try selling a single 20-30% out of the money call that expires in a month. You can read about it, but actually doing it is not that hard. Although, given the inflated stock prices and US equity options being 100 sized lot - you do have to keep an eye to roll it out if market is getting really exuberant.
Warning that a lot of companies have a trading policy that forbids employees from investing in options or any kind of derivative on their own stock. You might be allowed to make options trades on other companies in the sector (not legal advice).
I've only ever heard of this in the financial sector (even then, they can create trading plans for trades in future).
But yeah sure, I am not a lawyer or a fiduciary and this is not legal or fiduciary financial advise.
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#308This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…
At 5 min and 57 sec...
https://youtu.be/AJUIaVuqpUs?t=357
Is this whole shebang very different from Tesla FSD claims?
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're reading an article about the indicting the founder of a company and someone is posting on HN that it's a good time to short, then it's too late to short.
Interestingly, if they had shorted it at the time they made the comment, they would currently be ahead.
And if the ball landed on black instead of red the last time I bet on roulette I'd also be ahead.
Performance analysis like this after the fact doesn't really have any relevance unless there was some information missed.
Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure creating a multibillion dollar vaporware fraud shell company and being a dick on Twitter are comparable sins.
The sin is the same: Being successful when I'm not. Off with their heads!
You know the thread your posting this in is about one of them being indicted for fraud, right?