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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#301

Post by narrator »

shawndrost wrote: post #282
fridif wrote: post #192

Don't understand the hate for the SAT. Where I went to school, students would just beg their teachers for better grades and it literally worked. I did average on my SAT compared to my ex-gf in college (top 30 US school) but I ran a 3.8 in college compared to her being a C student. Doesn't matter anyway because none of the stuff I learned in college is used in my daily job as a java developer.

I can't point to something better than the SAT, but I can tell you what people don't like about it. SATs correlate with demographics in ways that conflict with the concept that merit is evenly distributed among student demographics.

One approach to prevent people from drawing racist inferences from standardized test scores or other statistics is to adopt the French policy of not collecting or keeping any race statistics. That would allow us to preserve meritocracy without promoting racism or depriving highly qualified applicants of the limited educational opportunities that will help them contribute the most to society.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#302

Post by harmegido »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #265
briefcomment wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the best colleagues I've worked with aced the SAT and/or other standardized tests. I would hate to not be able to refer to them while interviewing job candidates. Honestly, standardized test scores and some case study type questions would be sufficient to make a decision (along with 1 on 1 convos). I hope a decision like this opens a channel for smart people to get to employment without having to go to school or…

> All the best colleagues I've worked with aced the SAT and/or other standardized tests I did not do well on my SATs (1500/1600) - do you think there's any way to make up for this? Or am I supposed to be as unimpressive as I was at 17 forever?

I believe 1500/1600 is top 2%, so it's weird you'd consider that not "well" to me.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#303

Post by ikiris »

Aunche wrote: post #241
sjg007 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT is basically institutionalized racism. I think this has been well studied, from its origins until today. If you have the means and money you can get tutored test prep and do significantly better than you would otherwise. Next on this list will be scholarships and admissions for elite sports. Rowing and gymnastics all favor the wealthy. https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2020/08/17/h... Maybe we n…

You can also just hire tutors to help you with coursework. How is the SAT different in that aspect?

Yes yes, have them do it at your lake house during the derby my good sport. You can even take more time if you have your chef prepare you meals so you can study through!

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#304

Post by ethbr0 »

Y_Y wrote: post #234
nemo44x wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we put MBA’s in leadership positions of universities so they do what they’ve been trained to do - run a business. And part of that is finding metrics to measure their success by.

Someone should give those guys an old-school CRPG to provide an outlet for this make-the-number-go-up fixation. The metric that can be measured is not the eternal metric. The result that can be result-driven is not the eternal result.

What do you think fantasy football is?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#305

Post by visarga »

dahfizz wrote: post #152
charlesju wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given 2 equally smart people. The one that has the opportunity to take more AP/Honors will have more opportunity to get a higher GPA.

And as a result, the person who took more Honors classes will be "more educated" (assuming the Honors / AP classes succeed in their stated goal). Therefore, the student that took the Honors classes is more competitive. It comes back to the question of what universities should prioritize. Should they be optimizing for the fairest / most equal student body, or the most gifted / competitive student body?

Even when parents are paying for the lesson, it's still the student that has to do the hard work. But a student with less help deserves more merit for achieving the same.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#306

Post by hindsightbias »

41209 wrote: post #81

For one , you don't need to go straight to college , or attend college at all. Even before I got my BA I was making more than the Ivy League Alum in my family. That's the first myth. California has what's probably the best community college system in America. It was very easy for me, as a poor kid to meet ( and at times date) people from all over the world. Maybe you dropped out of high school due to just not liking…

I would encourage any Californian who lives near a CC to consider taking in a younger relative and helping them get established. Even a year lets them find friends/jobs where 2 or 3 of them can get together and find a apt/house if they want or you can't support a 2 or 4 year program.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#307

Post by dnautics »

usaar333 wrote: post #37
pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

It's top 7% now and it has a holistic system to handle students outside that cohort. The reason this exists is that it's effectively an affirmative action program for both urban segregated schools and rural schools, which combined have enough political power to pull this off. I believe political dynamics in CA wouldn't allow for this to be constructed - note that suburbs in general fight against such policies. UT its…

> I believe political dynamics in CA wouldn't allow for this to be constructed

I believe california has a similar program (or did at some time since Bakke), specifically for UC (the "higher tier" university system, versus cal state system)

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#308

Post by rejectedandsad »

sokoloff wrote: post #293
rejectedandsad wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DE Shaw rejected me after I submitted my SATs (not once, but twice). What even is the point of living if society deems people like me to be inherently inferior for life ?

Almost no place has this (fairly pointless IMO) policy in place. How predictive is the SAT test I took when I was 16 to my performance on the job a decade later?

You went to MIT so fairly predictive I think, as you just said it was the densest region of talent you’ve ever seen.

If you saw my resume you’d understand how hopeless it is for people like me. It’s depressing.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#309

Post by panda88888 »

vharish wrote: post #102
nr2x wrote: post #20

Having spent a lot of time doing MS admissions at a top-tier CS program, I never really cared that much about specific scores unless they were absolutely terrible. Tests don’t tell you much about an applicant, essays are more helpful to know if somebody can be successful. We did away with tests and I didn’t miss them.

Can't essays be gamed? And if one is better at writing essays, it doesn't necessarily mean he is better at other stuff. MS admissions in particular have people applying from different countries, countries where English is not the primary language.

IMO essay is easier games than the SAT. There is no guarantee on how much essay is actually written by the student compared to SAT, where it actually checks the ID. If anything, if I have the means I would have consultants work with my kid on choosing a topic, then heavily edited for impact while retaining the student’s writing style.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#310

Post by TigeriusKirk »

iammisc wrote: post #248
kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You......ask what people got on the SATs in your job interview?

For my first jobs out of college, I listed my SAT scores. EDIT: Don't understand the downvotes. I went to a top liberal arts college and they told us to, if it was over a certain number. It worked broadly speaking.

I did too. It specifically came up in interviews as a reason they brought me in.
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