Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 1001 posts

Re: How to Work Hard

#301

Post by nickelcitymario »

Zababa wrote: post #216
hikingsimulator wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropologic, literature, and historical research endeavors, even -- and in all likelihood especially -- when they intersect, can have a lot of value in many fields of the humanities, and beyond. They can inform our societal, political and economic prospects, and shine a light on what we usually don't even acknowledge. It's not because it doesn't impact your field/industry, isn't marketable and profitable, or becaus…

I don't think that's fair at all. We are on Hacker News, the whole point of this website is intellectual curiosity. People here understand the value of what doesn't impact their field/industry, isn't marketable and profitable. Look at how much open source code is produced just for the sake of it, because people believe it's the right thing. Look at how much cool projects with detailed instructions on how to do them y…

I'm not sure you're being fair.

I don't like the "STEM arrogance" bit (I wouldn't go so far as to say there is anything inherently arrogant about those in STEM), but I also don't think you can ever fairly judge the value of someone else's field.

You don't know why they went into the field -- I promise it's because they saw more value in it for themselves than other fields.

You don't why the school offers such programs, but I promise they wouldn't offer it if they didn't think there was some demand for it. (Programs that don't get students to enrol stop existing pretty quickly.)

So while I don't believe in "STEM arrogance" or "HN arrogance" (I'm here because I believe this is one of the least arrogant and most open-minded online communities I've ever encountered), I do believe it's arrogant to proclaim yourself the authority on whether someone else's field has value. Just because you don't see the value doesn't mean it's not there. It might even be more valuable than your own.

By the way, not sure if this was intentional on your part, but "maybe you should take some time to analyze where your feelings come from" is very much an idea that came from the humanities. So there's a certain amount of irony in your comments.

Re: How to Work Hard

#302

Post by edderly »

I find the mentions of Messi, Newton, Mozart and Wodehouse bizarre. The essay is similar to Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour theory, whether you agree or not, at worst Gladwell is writing a journalistic think piece.

Here though, is Graham credibly putting himself in the same category as Mozart? Dropping a reference to Patrick Collison, who no one outside of tech would have a clue who that is in the same breath as you namedrop Newton?

Re: How to Work Hard

#303

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lupire wrote: post #181
bko wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working hard in the mailroom or stocking shelves at a grocery store isn’t going to translate into a successful software career Right, but it might lead to satisfaction regardless. Even the most menial positions are often rewarded. I have worked a few menial jobs, and effort is even more important. When I worked hard and went the extra mile when required, I got rewarded with better shifts, more flexibility and more…

Putting that extra effort into forming a union might pay off a lot more than trying to impress MegaMart AI Scheduler v3.6 Putting the extra effort into a menial job isn't "a grueling workout", it's mortgaging your body and health for a price you'll regret in 20 years.

> Putting the extra effort into a menial job isn't "a grueling workout", it's mortgaging your body and health for a price you'll regret in 20 years.

Maybe if you're working grueling construction jobs or consuming fast food and soda for 3 meals a day because you're too busy for anything else.

However, having worked in an industry with a lot of people who are on their feet and doing physical work throughout the day, I've come to realize that sedentary jobs like programming are a huge risk to long-term health. Sitting at a desk all day every day takes a toll on the body. The people who were active and moving about every day for decades are still in good physical health years later. The people who sit at desks all day (without compensating with exercise) accumulate a lot of health problems and weight gain if they're not careful.

Re: How to Work Hard

#304

Post by tmule »

overtonwhy wrote: post #159
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be millionaires or billionaires Billionaire isn’t a realistic goal, but millionaire is a common outcome for software developers who work hard through their 20s and 30s now. It doesn’t even require a FAANG job or living in a super expensive city any more, just wise job selection, a reasonable amount of financial savvy and budget adhere…

Allow yourself to be exploited by capital in exchange for experience and you'll probably be rewarded later when you get to exploit inexperienced people? Sounds like a big risk for labor and a big win for capital.

Strange framing. Working very hard in the US has made my compensation increase 7X in 9 years. I’m not capital (this isn’t a static group, btw), I don’t feel exploited, and I don’t exploit anyone - I invested in myself and successfully optimized for long-run outcomes.

Re: How to Work Hard

#305

Post by joquarky »

notyourwork wrote: post #254
sidlls wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these replies with the typical 7% return for 20-30 years calculations are missing the point. I know what the arithmetic is. It is not common to be in a position to do that, even in the software industry.

If you start maxing out retirements in your first job and continue to do so throughout your career, raises will be raises and you'll continue to save. If you tap into your max savings per year in start of your career, you'll have trouble pairing that income back and putting it away for savings. Max out your retirement funds early and never look back.

That's all great until you have to use your retirement funds for medical emergencies.

Re: How to Work Hard

#306

Post by defnmacro »

My personal take is working hard is a precondition towards being successful but not necessarily a guarantee.

Lots of normal people work very hard, many normal people I know outside of tech are working night shifts and a day job to just sustain their lives. Many of these people rarely have a full day off, rather they might scale back the night job in order to get rest, or rest whenever their scheduling allows for it. There probably working just as hard as a Bill Gates, but these people aren't exactly walking towards a path of riches. They're just sustaining and it's a very unfortunate reality of America today.

Really success comes from the prerequisite of hard work, the aptitude of the individual in regards to the task, and the ability of the resulting work to pay off in convexity, similar to a call option in finance. Generally non-convex pay outs are also associated with risk, perhaps alot of it. So really success comes from working very hard, being smart about it and taking on risk.

Re: How to Work Hard

#307

Post by tonyedgecombe »

meheleventyone wrote: post #42
Y_Y wrote: post #16

Doesn't this sound shit though? If Bill Gates is so smart why did he have to work so much? Did he like coding and management more than days off? If a life of hard work is needed to get you into heaven that's fine. Or if anything less would mean you and your dependants going hungry. But once your basic needs are met then it's irrational not to start spending time on all of the other things that life has to offer. I fe…

There’s also a conflation of working hard and working really long hours. Plus some cherry picked examples. Basically if you only need to find five or six examples of success you could probably defend any lifestyle to get there. For example if I didn’t have kids or need to coordinate with the west coast of the US this mode from Haruki Murakami sounds lovely. > When I’m in writing mode for a novel, I get up at four a.m…

I read a book on authors work habits and this pattern seems very common. Work for a relatively short period in the morning (by modern work standards) then spend the rest of the day at leisure.

Re: How to Work Hard

#308

Post by the_jeremy »

cloverich wrote: post #264
the_jeremy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just wise job selection, a reasonable amount of financial savvy and budget adherence, and a deliberate effort to work on your career path. None of that requires working 12+ hours a day. I am one employee out of x,000 at my company. The difference between me giving 75% and me giving 150% (hours) seems very unlikely to affect the stock price in any meaningful way.

Do you think your colleagues can distinguish between someone who excel's and someone who does not? Do you think when they find some lucky opportunity, they would be more likely to reach out to the harder working colleagues they know or the lazier ones? It doesn't require 12 hour work days and we could exagerate ad nauseum, but generally speaking working hard and working smart earns you more than just a marginal impac…

Sure. There are definitely colleagues I would recommend over others if I had to only choose one, but I don't. Bouncing between large companies means "sure, I'll refer you and get $5k for doing so" as long as I think you can pass the interview.

Re: How to Work Hard

#309

Post by papito »

EricE wrote: post #141
papito wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they enjoy it or do they THINK they enjoy it? Many people realize that they wasted their lives on being in the office after they retire. This TED talk can be a revelation: https://www.ted.com/talks/bj_miller_what_really_matters_at_t... And the Bill Gates thing? PLEASE. Yeah, I agree with the previous comment. A horrible example. Bill Gates was one of the most lucky sons of bitches in the history of the planet. Bor…

Isn't it funny that all these people with incredible luck - every single one - also work their asses off?

Yes, Tim Ferris tells us we should work harder to have what he has.

Next time, I will be sure to be born in the Hamptons. He made the right first choice.

Re: How to Work Hard

#310

Post by didip »

helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

Yup, I reached the same conclusion. We even had that same "sick on the stomach" feel after playing video games.

I used to carry "working 80-90 hours/week" like a badge of honor. I was such a fool.

There are smart ways in making money that doesn't simultaneously reduce my lifespan.

Post reply on HN