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Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

nih.gov

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Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#301

Post by chopin »

mns wrote: post #253
thwarted wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting stupid, if it wasn't already. Requiring vaccination is "curtailing liberties". Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is "curtailing liberties". No shit. One can either be part of society or not. Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate. One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don't want to do either of these things. That's the price of admission of ge…

> No one is giving up any "liberties" by getting vaccinated, but it's more likely they are acquiring liberties by getting vaccinated. At the very least it's the liberty of reducing the risk of dying. As a person waiting to get his booster shot next week, I find this quite concerning. Those liberties we had and were taken away from us. Nobody cares about people dying. I am sitting now next to my mom who 1 month ago wa…

To add to your argument: I've never encountered a discussion, much less a proposal to throttle all cars at 10 km/h. That would save around 4000 lives here in Germany alone and spare many more severely injured, scarred for their life.

It's not about saving lifes, it's about getting re-elected.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#302

Post by js2 »

breck wrote: post #229
js2 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper you cited looks at re-infection at up to 100 days. She cites a paper indicating up to 5% of people have no signs of immunity at 6 months: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6529/eabf4063.ful...

No, it looked at reinfection for up to a year. "Out of 149,735 individuals with a documented positive PCR test between March 2020 and January 2021". The 100 days was the threshold they used for recovery.

Oops, you're right. But this is still just one paper with a number of limitations that concludes with "health policymakers should acknowledge the possibility of reinfection and reconsider the differential message to recovered population."

Still, it's clearly the case that people who have been infected are at reduced risk. I've been vaccinated and was never infected, so it's not a personal decision for me, but given the extremely low risk of the vaccine, even with this paper, I'd still likely get vaccinated and have family members who have done so. I don't think we have enough data yet to say they made a moronic decision.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#303

Post by kofddfjdfdfdff »

p49k wrote: post #297
kofddfjdfdfdff wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comparison does not make sense, though. The question is, how many people who are not at risk from the disease do you have to vaccinate, and how many people are there who can not be vaccinated and would contract Covid-19. Let's say with your numbers there are thousands of (young) people who die from the vaccination. How many people who can't be vaccinated would die if those young people would not get the vaccinat…

Even if we're only talking about 18-29, there have been 2,100 deaths from COVID in that age group in the US already. Even in the most generous interpretation, that means that it would be at least 10 times as dangerous for someone in that age group not to get vaccinated than it would to be vaccinated. The numbers are so blatantly obviously in favor of having everyone vaccinated. Anyway, I'm done feeding a troll accoun…

That's not what we are talking about. We are talking about getting vaccinated to protect other people, not oneself.

The young people who died probably all had comorbidities, so for a young person without any comorbidities, the risk profile is probably very different.

Anyway, your arrogance is impressive. You haven't really grasped the issue, but you are absolutely full of yourself.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#304

Post by withinboredom »

Thorrez wrote: post #271
withinboredom wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't is possible for someone to stab you? In (most of) the EU, it’s illegal to carry a weapon of any kind unless you have a reason to do so (ie, going hunting). You can’t even carry pepper spray.

Interesting. But someone could break that law. So the law doesn't stop you from being stabbed.

The law doesn’t stop anything, at all. It just provides a framework for punishing people who break them.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#305

Post by AstralStorm »

withinboredom wrote: post #187
Thorrez wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I, for example, don’t ever have to worry about my safety because the “freedom” of others have been curtailed on several points, and I deeply appreciate that. Isn't is possible for someone to stab you? So in theory you could have some small degree of worry about your safety. Different people have different places they draw the line for an acceptable amount of worry vs an acceptable amount of freedom restrictions.

> Isn't is possible for someone to stab you? In (most of) the EU, it’s illegal to carry a weapon of any kind unless you have a reason to do so (ie, going hunting). You can’t even carry pepper spray.

By most of, it's about 50/50 and a bad law, since it almost never prevents abuse. I put it alongside band on specific melee weapons.

(As opposed to gun control.)

Use of it should constitute assault, which gets turned into legitimate self defense in various situations, just as if you were hitting someone.

Some of those bans and laws are just reasons to jail or fine people and do not in particular help with safety. After all, anyone can have a knife or martial arts on them anywhere for legitimate reasons, and you better have means to defend against these.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#306

Post by breck »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #226
breck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that if you've recovered you are safe. I have been tracking this since early February 2020. I think if you've recovered you can stop worrying about COVID, and I have seen nothing that makes me think the vaccine is worth it in the least if you've recovered. I would not worry about mutant strains either. It's a very genetically stable virus. Even though the numbers in Indi…

>I have seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that if you've recovered you are safe. That's reassuring thank you. >Even though the numbers in India now are high, they are still significantly lower per capita than they were in the USA and UK last year. But there's consensus among the scientific community that it's being widely under-reported; At least 80-90% lesser than actual figures according to Dr. Ashish Jha dea…

> But there's consensus among the scientific community that it's being widely under-reported

Define consensus.

I used to work at Our World in Data, so I am biased, but I would consider them the most trustworthy curator of data sources (for one, they are open source and open to pull requests). So while there indeed may be problems with the India data (and we were constantly switching to better sources as they appeared), I would trust their data sources more than any one person on YouTube.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#307

Post by javagram »

symlinkk wrote: post #138
michaelmrose wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any other examples other than saying very early that people needn't mask up and then reversing on that point?

* “We don’t need to ban travelers from China, that’s absurd and xenophobic!” * “2 weeks to slow the spread, then this will all be over”

> * “We don’t need to ban travelers from China, that’s absurd and xenophobic!”

Fauci and the CDC were the ones who told Trump in January to ban travel, if you didn’t know. Fauci spoke in public in January 30, 2020 in favor of the ban.

Trump claimed many months later the opposite but he is a known liar.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-china-restrictions/

“ According to a March 2020 Wall Street Journal article, it was HHS health officials (including Fauci) who had to convince Trump to agree to the China travel ban, not the other way around:”

> 2 weeks to slow the spread, then this will all be over”

Unclear why you put this in quotes. This was the message from certain politicians like Trump, but it was never said by anyone who would typically be called an expert.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#308

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

breck wrote: post #306
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that if you've recovered you are safe. That's reassuring thank you. >Even though the numbers in India now are high, they are still significantly lower per capita than they were in the USA and UK last year. But there's consensus among the scientific community that it's being widely under-reported; At least 80-90% lesser than actual figures according to Dr. Ashish Jha dea…

> But there's consensus among the scientific community that it's being widely under-reported Define consensus. I used to work at Our World in Data, so I am biased, but I would consider them the most trustworthy curator of data sources (for one, they are open source and open to pull requests). So while there indeed may be problems with the India data (and we were constantly switching to better sources as they appeared…

> Define consensus.

> I would trust their data sources more than any one person on YouTube

Certainly not just a single person. I'm sure if you have a trusted news source, You might find an article on the subject like these -

CNN: 'As Covid sweeps India, experts say cases and deaths are going unreported' - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/27/india/india-covid-underre...

AP: 'Why number of COVID cases in India is exponentially higher than reported' - https://abc7chicago.com/india-covid-cases-coronavirus-case-c...

NYT: 'As Covid-19 Devastates India, Deaths Go Undercounted' - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/world/asia/india-coronavi...

Sky news: 'COVID-19: India crematoriums 'underreporting bodies' as suspicion grows over true number of coronavirus deaths ' - https://news.sky.com/story/india-crematoriums-underreporting...

Bloomberg: 'Even Record Death Toll May Hide Extent of India’s Covid Crisis' - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/even-reco...

ncbi: 'Underreporting COVID-19: the curious case of the Indian subcontinent' - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7508490/

There are local regional(state) media trying to count the uncounted deaths like these -

BBC report on that: 'India's Covid crisis: The newsroom counting the uncounted deaths' - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56969086 . I wonder whether Our World In Data would accept these data, If so it would be worth a PR then again its just the data of a state.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#309

Post by ceejayoz »

tomp wrote: post #252
baq wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scientific approach requires changing your mind in presence of new evidence and when there's not enough evidence, there will be differences in opinions. duh.

Scientific approach requires you not to proclaim something as “true” if it’s likely that new information would change that. The 5-sigma approach used in physics is science. The “no evidence of human-to-human transmission” used by the WHO isn’t science.

> The “no evidence of human-to-human transmission” used by the WHO isn’t science.

You've misquoted them, for starters. The actual quote is "no clear evidence", and they make it clear it's based on what data they had from China at that point. https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

https://www.who.int/news/item/29-06-2020-covidtimeline

Same day:

> WHO held a press briefing during which it stated that, based on experience with respiratory pathogens, the potential for human-to-human transmission in the 41 confirmed cases in the People’s Republic of China existed: “it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission”.

> WHO tweeted that preliminary investigations by the Chinese authorities had found “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”. In its risk assessment, WHO said additional investigation was “needed to ascertain the presence of human-to-human transmission, modes of transmission, common source of exposure and the presence of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic cases that are undetected”.

Five days later:

> The WHO Western Pacific Regional Office (WHO/WPRO) tweeted that, according to the latest information received and WHO analysis, there was evidence of limited human-to-human transmission.

"The 5-sigma approach used in physics is science."

So is the process used to get to a five-sigma result. Hypothesis, data gathering, analysis, etc. Like the WHO was having to do back in January of 2020.

Re: Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19

#310

Post by [deleted] »

lazyjones wrote: post #291
bserge wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I think I'm living in a parallel universe. I know people who travel regularly and no one says anything to them. No quarantine, nothing. Most people on the streets here in Germany give zero fucks, groups of 5-10, no masks (even though there's a curfew between 10pm-5am due to an increase in cases). And I traveled all the way from Moldova to Germany by car. No one, and I mean no one ever asked for a Covid test…

When was that? I traveled in the opposite direction (more or less: Vienna to Bucarest) more than 3 months ago and wasn't asked either, but on the Hungary-Romania border, they put me in a tiny room (1/3 shipping container or so) with ca. 10 people and gave me quarantine papers. They didn't check bags. I'm pretty sure they'd check for a test or vaccination now on the way back, I'm not eager to find out and will stay he…

[deleted]
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