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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#301

Post by hh3k0 »

prepend wrote: post #253

This seems pretty simple to me since the special unemployment insurance is up to $600/week[0] through at least July 31 it’s going to be hard to convince someone to work for less than that. So if it’s a choice between $15/hour, steady to not work and $18/hour variable to bus tables or whatnot I’m not surprised that people choose the $15. I expect this will be different once unemployment goes back to pre-covid and peop…

> Many jobs are terrible, I mean no one wants to be a janitor.

I honestly fail to see how janitor is a terrible job -- being in charge of keeping a building in shape, doing the repairs, etc.? That seems like a great job to me.

I'd wager most people would have a problem with the pay rather than the job itself.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#302

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway292893 wrote: post #19
LatteLazy wrote: post #3

Neither. If employers really wanted more workers, they'd up wages. If employees really wanted to work they'd settle for less. If neither is happening then everyone is happy and anyone complaining is a liar in the economic sense.

The people with jobs paying taxes aren't very happy to support freeloaders simply taking unemployment because they don't want to work.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#303

Post by throwawaygh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #293
throwawaygh wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they will, they will go down the street But... why? To save a couple bucks on a burger? This is a serious question. Is this really how consumer behavior works in the restaurant industry? Restaurant food isn't actually a commodity. A burger from one place can be quite different from a burger at another. Even at the low end -- I much prefer McD's to the other fast food joints. Atmospheres can be very different as…

> Maybe I'm just a weirdo? Yes. The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture. That must mean a majority of the customers are very price sensitive. I can easily afford to pay double and triple what most restaurants charge today. But I’m not going to pay it because I can easily make a meal at home of better quality for less, just have to add in my time and energ…

> The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture

I think what I was suggesting was that perhaps restaurants as an industry have systematically under-estimated consumers' willingness to pay.

You see this in software pricing discussions a lot, actually: small shops that leave a lot of money on the table by not charging enough. Is it really so crazy to imagine that restaurants might be doing the same thing?

> That must mean a majority of the customers are very price sensitive.

It's this "must" that is always asserted but... I think might not be as true as we assume?

I am not a restaurant owner, so what do I know.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#304

Post by grandmczeb »

j1elo wrote: post #279
inetknght wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.* Wow can you be any more out of touch? Your comment is offensively innaccurate. $58/day = $1740 for 30 days Unhealthy cheap carbs for a single person... $200/month (chicken, beans, rice, milk, chee…

> Vehicle insurance on an old vehicle: $300/mo Wow. In Spain you would pay between €150 to 200 per year of insurance for the typical old cheap car. 400/year for a nice, semi luxury one. I knew some things were expensive in the States, but this particular one surprised me a lot.

A lot depends on the state, type of coverage, driving history, and which company you use. The average range in Texas is ~$45-165/month depending on coverage[1]. I personally pay a bit over $50/month for a 2010 Honda Accord in California.

I wouldn’t take the costs listed in the parent comment literally.

[1] https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/states/

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#305

Post by pnutjam »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

Maybe we need some sort of wage floor or mandatory "minimum"...?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#306

Post by lotsofpulp »

throwawaygh wrote: post #303
lotsofpulp wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm just a weirdo? Yes. The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture. That must mean a majority of the customers are very price sensitive. I can easily afford to pay double and triple what most restaurants charge today. But I’m not going to pay it because I can easily make a meal at home of better quality for less, just have to add in my time and energ…

> The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture I think what I was suggesting was that perhaps restaurants as an industry have systematically under-estimated consumers' willingness to pay. You see this in software pricing discussions a lot, actually: small shops that leave a lot of money on the table by not charging enough. Is it really so crazy to imagine that…

Restaurant owners aren’t leaving money on the table because they’re charitable people. There’s so many restaurant openings and closings for so many decades that I think it’s a pretty good indicator of their price dynamics.

Software is B2B many times and has efficiencies of scale that restaurants don’t.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#307

Post by pnutjam »

conanbatt wrote: post #298
maybelsyrup wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Good! I've been hearing about "the business side of the problem" my entire life -- lectured sternly about it, in many cases. All while few of the Adults and Experts - people with Real Power, in other words - dare even mention some of the topics laid out in the link. > I'm just saying that both sides of the equation need to be examined, i.e…

If a business closes, lots of people lose employment + business owners become more employment competition. Increasing unemployment wrecks wages. It is also not free to give unemployment benefits, it requires higher taxation which moves the sustainability bar higher and more businesses close, etc etc.

You know how people avoid being impacted by a business going bankrupt? They don't take jobs there.

Jobs at more stable places are available and people will take them. The businesses need to fail or be sold.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#308

Post by throwawaygh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #306
throwawaygh wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The data clearly shows the vast majority of the restaurant business be a low margin, high risk venture I think what I was suggesting was that perhaps restaurants as an industry have systematically under-estimated consumers' willingness to pay. You see this in software pricing discussions a lot, actually: small shops that leave a lot of money on the table by not charging enough. Is it really so crazy to imagine that…

Restaurant owners aren’t leaving money on the table because they’re charitable people. There’s so many restaurant openings and closings for so many decades that I think it’s a pretty good indicator of their price dynamics. Software is B2B many times and has efficiencies of scale that restaurants don’t.

I'm not suggesting thy are charitable. I'm only suggesting that they are not omniscient.

> There’s so many restaurant openings and closings for so many decades that I think it’s a pretty good indicator of their price dynamics.

This may well be true.

But I mean, if this were the case, a common failure mode for restaurants would be full tables right up until bust, right? Low prices due to unprofitable margins would mean lots of demand. Losing money on every head, but lots of heads.

But, IME, in my area, restaurants that fail in the first year or two do not fail in that modality. They usually have some of the lowest prices, but empty seats none-the-less. Because the food isn't good, or the menu is weird, or they don't do marketing right, or the location is wrong, or a million other things. But in my area at least I basically never see restaurants will full tables fail.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#309

Post by Jweb_Guru »

djbebs wrote: post #291
Sebb767 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. She actually addressees this in the very last paragraph: > if a business can’t pay a living wage, should it be a business?

Yes? I dont understand how this is a question. If a businesa is in operation profitably it is because it is providing more value than if it were not, otherwise it would not be able to remain in business

If a business is operating profitably by paying people wages below the cost of living, it is being subsidized by the government and therefore is not independently profitable in any meaningful sense.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#310

Post by aliceryhl »

inetknght wrote: post #164
gruez wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 * 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.

> Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.* Wow can you be any more out of touch? Your comment is offensively innaccurate. $58/day = $1740 for 30 days Unhealthy cheap carbs for a single person... $200/month (chicken, beans, rice, milk, chee…

Couldn't you do without the car? I've heard that the US has bad public transport, but is it really that bad?
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