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Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

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Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#301

Post by mullingitover »

refurb wrote: post #291
mullingitover wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with notion this is that 'woke' or 'activist' values are actually pretty reflective of mainstream values in 21st century society. I would worry more about the legal exposure of people who express opposition to diversity/equity/inclusiveness, as these are very likely to be the people who would end up behaving inappropriately and getting the company mired in harassment and discrimination suits.

The very fact these value are called “activist” and “woke” means they aren’t mainstream values. And it’s not the values, it’s the disruption. If you had anti-abortion Republicans doing the same would everyone be saying how the company should “tread lightly”.

The labels 'activist' and 'woke' are generally applied derisively by people people who don't share these values. To the mainstream these traits are generally not even labeled, they're just what we consider common decency in this decade. When my parents were my age it was 'activist' and 'woke' to be in favor of mixed race marriages. Times change.

> And it’s not the values, it’s the disruption.

People want to feel like they're in a career that aligns with their values, and the more in demand your talent is, the more you're able to make demands of your employers to have them be values-aligned. If employers don't need top shelf talent, they're free to ignore that and be less competitive in the market for talent. However, successful companies usually tend to compete. We're talking about Spotify because they competed for and hired high-grade talent, and that high-grade talent wants their company to be values-aligned.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#302

Post by HKH2 »

colllectorof wrote: post #78

Gotta love the constant movement of goalposts and gaslighting around this. As in many other cases it started with claims that nobody intends to censor any content during the move. Then when deletions actually took place the narrative radically shifted to the claim that content removal was always the obvious, natural and reasonable course and there should be no controversy, because it was inevitable all along.

Joe himself constructed that narrative and he knew what he signed up for. $100m does that to people.

Does anyone need to say that SV is left-leaning? Some of us bought into the idea that Joe's contract protected him from censorship, but now we know that's not the case.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#303

Post by refurb »

mullingitover wrote: post #301
refurb wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very fact these value are called “activist” and “woke” means they aren’t mainstream values. And it’s not the values, it’s the disruption. If you had anti-abortion Republicans doing the same would everyone be saying how the company should “tread lightly”.

The labels 'activist' and 'woke' are generally applied derisively by people people who don't share these values. To the mainstream these traits are generally not even labeled, they're just what we consider common decency in this decade. When my parents were my age it was 'activist' and 'woke' to be in favor of mixed race marriages. Times change. > And it’s not the values, it’s the disruption. People want to feel like…

Thankfully silencing opinions you disagree with isn’t mainstream...yet.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#304

Post by slg »

imgabe wrote: post #298
slg wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The one clip you happened to find at the top of your google search does not constitute everything he ever said on the topic. I never said it did constitute everything he has ever said on the topic. However that isn't the point. Not every episode is being removed. Only some of them are. He can be accepting of trans people on 99 episodes and it doesn't undo being transphobic on the 100th. It is also possible his opini…

> You are the one who brought sports into this. I simply stated he has been repeatedly accused of transphobia. His opinion on sports is part of that, but it isn't the only time he has been called transphobic. Ok, then find a clip where he promotes violence against trans people or any other group or tells people to hate them. The burden of proof is on people making the claim to provide evidence that supports it, not t…

You are arguing against points I never made.

I didn't accuse him of transphobia. I said he can't go a few months without new accusations of transphobia. That is just a fact. If you want, you can go through those Google results from a few comments back and try to refute those accusations. I don't care enough about Joe Rogan to try to prove anything about him.

I never said Spotify's policy was "a gold standard" or even "good policy". I'm not defending their actions in removing specific episodes. I have no idea why those specific episodes were removed. I simply started with a comment that this was an obvious eventuality due to Spotify's policy and what Rogan says (it is a simple fact that he is often accused of spreading hate speech, whether what he says is actually hate speech is almost irrelevant because the accusations alone are enough to know that he would eventually be perceived to have violated the policy).

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#305

Post by slg »

Method-X wrote: post #294
slg wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you said: >Rogan didn't even say trans women shouldn't compete This is what Rogan said (rough transcript): >[When you let a trans women competing against cisgender women] you are stealing from [cisgender] women, you are stealing victory, you are cheating, you are fucking 100% cheating, and anybody who says they are not is an asshole. You are misrepresenting Rogan's point to make it sound more acceptable.…

>[When you let a trans women competing against cisgender women] you are stealing from [cisgender] women, you are stealing victory, you are cheating, you are fucking 100% cheating, and anybody who says they are not is an asshole. ^ What’s wrong with that statement? It’s a crude way to phrase things, but it’s true. Saying trans women have a biologic advantage when competing against cis women is not transphobic.

> Saying trans women have a biologic advantage when competing against cis women is not transphobic.

I never said it was transphobic.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#307

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #304
imgabe wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are the one who brought sports into this. I simply stated he has been repeatedly accused of transphobia. His opinion on sports is part of that, but it isn't the only time he has been called transphobic. Ok, then find a clip where he promotes violence against trans people or any other group or tells people to hate them. The burden of proof is on people making the claim to provide evidence that supports it, not t…

You are arguing against points I never made. I didn't accuse him of transphobia. I said he can't go a few months without new accusations of transphobia. That is just a fact. If you want, you can go through those Google results from a few comments back and try to refute those accusations. I don't care enough about Joe Rogan to try to prove anything about him. I never said Spotify's policy was "a gold standard" or even…

[deleted]

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#308

Post by mullingitover »

refurb wrote: post #303
mullingitover wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labels 'activist' and 'woke' are generally applied derisively by people people who don't share these values. To the mainstream these traits are generally not even labeled, they're just what we consider common decency in this decade. When my parents were my age it was 'activist' and 'woke' to be in favor of mixed race marriages. Times change. > And it’s not the values, it’s the disruption. People want to feel like…

Thankfully silencing opinions you disagree with isn’t mainstream...yet.

It's absolutely mainstream on all sides to try to silence people you disagree with, and it always has been. Republicans tried to silence Nike and the NFL over Colin Kaepernick, Democrats tried to silence companies for doing business with the apartheid regime in South Africa, Republicans are trying to silence Coke and Delta for their support of voting rights, civil rights era people tried to silence racist bus companies, evangelicals are constantly trying to silence all manner of businesses all the time. It's a long-standing American tradition at this point.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#309

Post by Method-X »

paxys wrote: post #187

Don't know why Joe Rogan is treated like some free-speech messiah and Spotify the villain. If he was really that adamant on getting his message out there he would have kept his podcast free. Instead he chose a $100M payday (and the associated censorship terms), and here we are.

Isn’t his podcast still free? I already have a paid account so I honestly don’t know.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#310

Post by [deleted] »

motohagiography wrote: post #288
klyrs wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if the people making the decisions agree with the people you're describing as a terrorist mob? What if some of them do, and some of them don't, and this compromise reflects the diverse viewpoints of the people involved? Or what if it's a purely monetary decision, where hosting rogan is expected to be more profitable than not, and removing a few of his more controversial casts is expected to be more profitabl…

When I see a compelling op-ed or a principled stand against mobs from a mainstream platform, media, or consumer products executive, I'll certainly revisit my view, but until then, I'm sure they are compensated for any respect they may have traded.

[deleted]
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