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Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

system76.com

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Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#301
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac markup is not 100%.

For SSD upgrade prices, it is actually more than a 100% markup compared to retail prices for the most premium Samsung PCIe SSDs on the market. Apple's markup is multiple hundreds of percent compared to mid-range PCIe SSDs on the market. Retail prices already include higher profit margins than bulk order prices would include, which makes this markup even more egregious. I calculated it the other day, and Apple is char…

I’m talking about computers here though, not parts. Spec for spec, is an Apple computer really 2x more expensive?

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#302
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have owned multiple S76 machines - the machine was built by Clio? The guts were good, but the case was chintsy. I had four of these laptops - and on ALL 4 they would have screws come loose and fall out inside the case. You could hear it rattling around when you turned the machine. Two of them had one type of connector for the screen and the other two had a different connector - One got fried and on the other I brok…

> HP support is AMAZING. Can anyone else back this up? Has HP changed? I've sworn off HP products (both enterprise and consumer) because of their terrible customer service and documentation. Dell/Lenovo always offer something very similar in price and performance, and their enterprise support is fine to great.

Yes it is amazing, EVEN for the lower end E series.

I bought one, and didn't like the keyboard. Send to a relative overseas. Months later the Mobo died a few weeks under warranty. Called HP and told i was overseas. They provided a local support number. ship by local post. upgraded new mobo. no charge.

This was a non-business $300ish laptop.

sadly, their shopping experience is abysmal like every other PC manufacturer :(

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#303
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For SSD upgrade prices, it is actually more than a 100% markup compared to retail prices for the most premium Samsung PCIe SSDs on the market. Apple's markup is multiple hundreds of percent compared to mid-range PCIe SSDs on the market. Retail prices already include higher profit margins than bulk order prices would include, which makes this markup even more egregious. I calculated it the other day, and Apple is char…

I’m talking about computers here though, not parts. Spec for spec, is an Apple computer really 2x more expensive?

Certainly. Computers are made of parts. Apple charges egregious prices for upgrades, some companies don’t. System76 is the focus of this whole discussion, and they charge extremely reasonable prices for SSD upgrades... not hundreds of percent markups.

Since we’re on the topic of System76, a fully upgraded Oryx Pro (except leaving the GPU at the base option) costs about half of what a fully upgraded 16” MBP costs (also leaving the GPU at the base option), while offering similar specs — $3158 vs $6000. The System76 chooses to go for a 144Hz panel instead of a HiDPI panel, but different people value different things. The System76 obviously has a better port selection (for most people), while obviously not being as sleek — but it’s not huge either, it’s reasonably thin and light. It’s more durable while not as shiny. It’s easy for people to pull out the “no true Scotsman” defense at this point, but it all depends on what the customer is looking for. It’s Apple’s fault if they don’t offer enough variety to meet the needs of their customers.

I’m sure I could dig into comparative analysis of other OEMs vs Apple and come up with other examples, but this one is easy enough.

Spec for spec, Apple charges much more than twice as much for many important upgrades... so a sufficiently upgraded Apple laptop can be more than twice as much, even if it’s often “only” a 70% markup or something. That doesn’t excuse charging egregious prices for storage. Customers want storage, and Apple withholds it unless customers want to pay a large ransom. They solder the SSDs so that customers cannot upgrade their own computers.

I own an M1 MacBook Air. I’m not some “Apple hater”, but their upgrade pricing is truly appalling, and for all their talk of environmental friendliness, their attempts to thwart aftermarket repair and upgrades significantly hinders the total potential lifetime of their products, which increases their environmental impact relative to what could be.

I bought the 256GB/16GB model, and that 256GB SSD is borderline too small for me to deal with, and I’m not even like an average user that would be attempting to store music and pictures on it. I’m almost exclusively using it for software dev and web browsing. I would swap out the SSD, but... that’s obviously not possible.

If I can’t make the 256GB of storage work long term, I think I would rather sell this thing and buy something else than give Apple $0.52/GB. The M1 is good... but it’s not priceless. My opinions are subject to change, of course.

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why many workstation-class laptops DONT have a num pads. It is so annoying to have to type long sequences of digits without one.

This debate makes me wonder what it'd be like to have a keyboard layout in which the num pad is in the middle of the keyboard, such that on a qwerty keyboard Q-T, A-G, Z-V are on one side and Y-P, H-L, B-M on another, with the numbers in the middle (separated by a buffer space). I know this sounds crazy, but IME the worst part of keyboard ergonomics on mac laptops is that my hands are much closer together than my sho…

Nice idea. Keyboard design is stuck in typewriter era and my shoulders and wrists could use an ergonomics upgrade. There's nice split keyboards, but the price is steep (~300 euros vs my current sub 10 euro keyboard).

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why many workstation-class laptops DONT have a num pads. It is so annoying to have to type long sequences of digits without one.

This debate makes me wonder what it'd be like to have a keyboard layout in which the num pad is in the middle of the keyboard, such that on a qwerty keyboard Q-T, A-G, Z-V are on one side and Y-P, H-L, B-M on another, with the numbers in the middle (separated by a buffer space). I know this sounds crazy, but IME the worst part of keyboard ergonomics on mac laptops is that my hands are much closer together than my sho…

Get an mnt reform and build your own :D Or just invest the few bucks to go for an mvp: split 60% keyboard and a separate numpad simply stuck between the two splits. If you like it, build it properly. :D

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large number of laptop users just use them on the desktop, tethered to a big screen, in clamshell mode. This includes almost every vlogger setup one can find...

Surely this is just due to a lack of knowledge? If you're never going to use the portability, then you can get a much more powerful desktop than a laptop given the same amount of money. Having a built in UPS is pretty sweet for some use cases though.

>Surely this is just due to a lack of knowledge? If you're never going to use the portability, then you can get a much more powerful desktop than a laptop given the same amount of money.

They can also just like having the option of portability, and appreciate the less bulk. Plus, they do use it once in a blue moon outside (at a conference, traveling, etc).

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside with this is extra effort to keep them in sync. Depending on what you do, syncing can be easy (or even trivial if you do everything remote anyway) or more annoying.

Just install Syncthing. And if you have an Android, you can even sync photos/notes to and from the device to your computers.

Syncthing has been life changing. Very much "set it and forget it".

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#309
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This debate makes me wonder what it'd be like to have a keyboard layout in which the num pad is in the middle of the keyboard, such that on a qwerty keyboard Q-T, A-G, Z-V are on one side and Y-P, H-L, B-M on another, with the numbers in the middle (separated by a buffer space). I know this sounds crazy, but IME the worst part of keyboard ergonomics on mac laptops is that my hands are much closer together than my sho…

Nice idea. Keyboard design is stuck in typewriter era and my shoulders and wrists could use an ergonomics upgrade. There's nice split keyboards, but the price is steep (~300 euros vs my current sub 10 euro keyboard).

I've been typing on a ~60eur let's split for the better part of a year now. Made myself some nice armrests out of scrps of locust. My more expensive keyboards don't hold a candle to it imo

Re: Pangolin – Mobile AMD laptop with Ryzen CPU and Radeon graphics

#310

I don't understand why many of these workstation-class laptops have num. pads. It is so annoying to type with your hands off-center from the screen.

I don't understand why most developers that work in a stationary location use underpowered/thermally-constrained laptops rather than a desktop machine.

I was wondering that about myself for a while. Upgraded from a laptop to a desktop and it's awesome. The ease of maintainability (and upgradability) and ergonomics of not having a laptop on the table are awesome. Plus it's much cheaper.
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