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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#301

Post by Dylan16807 »

ketzu wrote: post #72
elmo2you wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of countries (if not most) have this or something similar, anchored in either their constitution or at least in regular law. This should not come as a surprise either, since it's essentially the implementation of Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Where it usually goes wrong, is with the interpretation of the words "privacy" and "communication". Also, governments have a habit of defining…

The universal declaration of human rights 12 [1] contains the very important word "arbitrary" as a qualifier of privacy violations. > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. One reason for this has broad applicability: Ev…

If you do it to everyone, is it still arbitrary?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#302

Post by viceroyalbean »

caskstrength wrote: post #212
nickez wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is all public data. You can get that through open channels like birthday.se as well. I've been at BankID and I know for a fact exactly what information they store. They store only what is necessary from a regulatory standpoint.

Are personal mobile phone numbers considered public information in Sweden?

You can get a phone number without registering it to your name, but otherwise yes. Most people's phone numbers can be found online, as well as reverse (find someone's name by phone number) .

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#303

Post by nickserv »

cmehdy wrote: post #296
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mon ami ne crois pas tout ce que tu entends.

C'est pas ce que j'entends, c'est simplement les faits. Les décisions par referendum c'est grosso modo unique au monde, contrairement aux multiples couches de gouvernance qu'on peut voir dans plein d'autres pays (que ce soit le modèle Britannique/Commonwealth, les modèles des pays Latino-Américains, le modèle Français..)

No worries, we'll have a proportional Assembly and citizen's initiatives any day now...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#304

Post by OOPMan »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #282
esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

They are doing the correct thing then. Prisons, ID, policing NONE of that stuff should ever be in corporate hands. It just stinks of fascism to anyone who really thinks about it for more than a moment. Governments are bad enough, corporations should never take on such roles because then they have a second incentive of profit to be bad actors and not just petty power trips.

I don't want to be that guy but it really has nothing to with facism.

I suggest you google the definition.

It's definitely a bad idea, but just because something is a bad idea does not magically make it facism.

If you think stuff like this being okay in the hands of a government then you might want to reexamine that line of reasoning, given that most governments are barely any better than corporations at the end of the day...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#305

Post by marcod »

wombatmobile wrote: post #100
marcod wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that same system also voted on banning Muslim face coverings ("Experts estimate that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full-face coverings in the country of 8.5 million people."), while a pandemic is going on and face coverings for protection are recommended. https://apnews.com/article/health-legislation-coronavirus-pa...

You seem to be expressing an opinion about banning Muslim face coverings. I am not responding to your expression of opinion - just clarifying how the Swiss electoral system is structured. That vote was a referendum, which is another component of the Swiss system, separate and complimentary to the Executive Council. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_Switzerland

My bad, I thought the anti electronic ID vote was also a referendum.

Populist ideas, can easily thrive in a direct democracy.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#306

Post by robin_reala »

zo1 wrote: post #135
nickez wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden we have a company running the ID system and that works fine. The company is coowned by all the large banks afaik. I was really surprised at how far behind Switzerland is compared to Scandinavia when it comes to digitalisation. Being able to handle my life hassle free online instead of going to physical places (like post office, banks, gov office) is liberating. I also get all my bills digitally and all my r…

If you think that's bad, look at the UK. They had a government-ID system with an ID card, and then they scrapped it. Now people run around using driver's licenses and municipal bills (I guess) to open bank accounts and other things. Utterly backwards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Documents_Act_2010 I've been formulating my thinking around it and I'm starting to think that this is some sort of new-age "luddi…

There is an online identity verification service run by the UK government: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introducing-govuk...

Verification is done by third-parties in conjunction with government data. At the moment it’s only used for government services, but there has been talk for half a decade about expanding it to the private sector.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#307

Post by repolitical »

oumua_don17 wrote: post #246
cmehdy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes a lot of sense in Switzerland, since "the government is the people" is more true than in the overwhelming majority of countries on Earth. Pragmatic take from the Swiss as usual :) (said by a jealous French citizen)

AFAIK, Switzerland is the only country with direct democracy or ‘Govt is the people’. As you said overwhelming majority, are there any countries that have direct democracy or come close?

Have a look at Taiwan.

Taiwan (the Republic of China) is another jurisdiction with direct democracy elements. Direct democratic rights have been in their constitution since 1940s, but they weren't seriously implemented until 2000s. The exercise of these rights is still relatively new in Taiwan.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#308

Post by Bayart »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #275
wombatmobile wrote: post #55

Switzerland has an awesome electoral system [1]. Instead of being ruled by a president or a prime minister who can be polarising, divisive, or selective, Switzerland has an Executive Council. The 7 member Executive Council is composed of the top 7 candidates from each election. The chairperson of the executive council rotates each year, so that the top 4 vote winners each get a turn at being chairperson. This means t…

i disagree wholeheartedly in that it is more cooperative. Switzerland is anything but cooperative. But that's what makes this country so great. We take our divisions, within cantons, and leverage them for positive externalities to (accidentally) benefit the greater good. In CH, every very canton sets their own citizenship policy. Its not a coincidence. Did you hear about the woman that's been living in Zug, and been…

>So, while spain sends soldiers to die in Afghanistan, or the UK wastes decades of development on a grand EU project, or US citizens get spied on by their own govt via Patriot Act.... CH is just sitting pretty, doing its thing. Arguing about every little detail to exhaustion.

Switzerland can afford to do this because it's surrounded by countries that protect it from the real world. It doesn't have a real foreign policy because it doesn't have to.

>The best thing that could happen to us, is to remain just as we are. I welcome the next 800 years of peace and economic development.

That's not up to you. As I've said earlier, you're lucky to be surrounded by countries with bigger fish to fry as long as Switzerland toes the line.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#309

Post by michaelmrose »

emteycz wrote: post #28
michaelmrose wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you decide the things that shouldn't be voted on without voting?

Why do you need voting to understand a person's clothing is not for you to decide? It was well understood before democracy crazed the minds of everyone - not even feudal lords thought they could do that, not even communists did.

Then logically you need to enshrine such rights in law by... voting!

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#310

Post by [deleted] »

OOPMan wrote: post #304
stjohnswarts wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are doing the correct thing then. Prisons, ID, policing NONE of that stuff should ever be in corporate hands. It just stinks of fascism to anyone who really thinks about it for more than a moment. Governments are bad enough, corporations should never take on such roles because then they have a second incentive of profit to be bad actors and not just petty power trips.

I don't want to be that guy but it really has nothing to with facism. I suggest you google the definition. It's definitely a bad idea, but just because something is a bad idea does not magically make it facism. If you think stuff like this being okay in the hands of a government then you might want to reexamine that line of reasoning, given that most governments are barely any better than corporations at the end of t…

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