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Flutter 2

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Re: Flutter 2

#301

Post by hanniabu »

blacktriangle wrote: post #132
yagodragon wrote: post #112

We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…

We're nagging because the apps suck and stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe Flutter will be the one to get there and be the holy grail of cross platform UI development, but the developer community has been burned by this promise so many times, we're going to have to see the final product before getting excited. Just because a project is ambitious doesn't mean we should all jump on board, particularly when similar proj…

I don't understand why more resources aren't being put into Qt and making that easier to use or building a more "web-developer-friendly" abstraction layer on top.

Re: Flutter 2

#302

Post by JohnTHaller »

randomchars wrote: post #35

The idea sounds very appealing, especially to an indie developer: being able to ship your app on multiple platforms from a single codebase is kind of the holy grail. Unfortunately, the result is.... I tested this Flutter example[1], on a 16" MBP with and i7, and it is janky as it can get, it feels like I'm using a 15 year old computer. From the code it looks like the whole thing is... rendered on canvas? I'll pass. […

Really bad on Firefox on Windows 10 64-bit (latest) with an i7-7700k and GTX-1060 6GB as well

Re: Flutter 2

#303

Post by tomComb »

the_duke wrote: post #167
offtop5 wrote: post #65

Pretty sure I'm the only person on this thread who loves flutter. We use flutter web and Firebase for our hobbyist project, and the results have been simply amazing. Dart makes Typescript look like a joke. The build system alone makes flutter better than React Native ! I'm confident in being able to build any CRUD app in dart Edit, in fact how many of you have actually built a project in flutter .I can't believe anyo…

Can you share any example of Flutter Web that isn't a extremely basic Todo app, doesn't completely break regular browser UX and works without being slow as molasses? I haven't seen one. I like Flutter, but I don't think the Flutter Web design is very viable for production apps. It renders everything in canvas. Dart is already sluggish on native, and cross compiled to JS it's usually unusable. I think Flutter will be…

I assume their medium term plan is to make the new wasm backend the default rather than continuing to rely on transpiling.

Re: Flutter 2

#305

Post by danudey »

murermader wrote: post #116
randomchars wrote: post #35

The idea sounds very appealing, especially to an indie developer: being able to ship your app on multiple platforms from a single codebase is kind of the holy grail. Unfortunately, the result is.... I tested this Flutter example[1], on a 16" MBP with and i7, and it is janky as it can get, it feels like I'm using a 15 year old computer. From the code it looks like the whole thing is... rendered on canvas? I'll pass. […

I just tried it on an iPad Pro with Safari. Clicking the tiles does not work, scrolling does not work with the touchpad, and overall it feels very janky. They probably didn‘t care to optimize / make it usable with Safari.

Trying it on Windows 10 with Firefox. Scrolling is incredibly slow, in every possible way. The scroll wheel barely moves the content, so I have to spin the wheel ten or more times to get any reasonable distance down the page, and the animation is janky and stuttery.

Works great in Chrome though, what a surprise!

Re: Flutter 2

#306

Post by oblio »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #294
oblio wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syntax, semantics, code organization and best practices, libraries, frameworks, debugging and debuggers, IDE support (preferably multiple IDEs for multiple platforms), LSP support, linters, profilers, disassemblers, dependency license checkers, dependency vulnerability scanners, package managers, package repository with support for private repos and proxying/mirroring, should I go on and on and on? Your toy app takes…

> crappy tech What kind of an argument is this? Not wanting to learn all those things for multiple languages is valid. But "it would take a while" doesn't tell you anything about whether a language is crappy. The odds are pretty close to 50:50 that the language you already know is the crappier one.

My main point is that developers chase shiny things and "easy to use" is one of the shiniest things out there.

Past a certain point, being usable in 2 clicks is a negative signal for overall tech quality. Most of the really solid techs need some extra configuration. The classic example of crappy tech is the DB tech that listens on 0.0.0.0 after installation, with no user + pass or admin/admin.

Re: Flutter 2

#307

Post by okamiueru »

oblio wrote: post #269
okamiueru wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your main use case for type unions? I don't know typescript, but I haven't felt the dart language was not feature complete for all my uses. Is this something you cannot solve with a combination of abstract classes, and or/extension? https://dart.dev/guides/language/extension-methods

Let's say you get a JSON API that sometimes returns a list, sometimes returns an object. How do you model that in Dart?

You could create an abstract class for the base response, then implement this abstract class for the two cases one where it has a list member, and one where it contains the object. Then, using the return value with something like `if (response is listLike) { }` the IDE already knows that you are scoped to having only the list like properties, and you'd get the full help of the language. Something like that, I suppose.

Re: Flutter 2

#308

Post by muxator »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #268
qbasic_forever wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown us over and over again, always bet on the web. Sure you might not like JS as a language, you might find CSS confusing and full of warts, etc. but it's here and will be here 20, 50, and 100 years from now. We're not going to just sit up and throw away 25+ years of progress and history on the web overnight. Tech like java applets, flash, silverlight, etc. come and go like fads. Who knows if Google wil…

> History has shown us over and over again, always bet on the web. This is a mantra on HN. But is it true? I don’t think it is if you’re trying to build a big product mainstream people will use. People want native apps. No one needs the apps to work in 25 years. The web is just part of the picture, an important part, but still just a part.

> People want native apps.

I'll take a well done web page anytime over a native app.

Re: Flutter 2

#309

Post by blowski »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #273
lordgroff wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just me but I don't remotely think JS is a bad language since es6. Tooling is another story entirely.

Extremely same feeling here. Ditching IE11 support is a total game-change for the web. ES module imports just work and you don't have to go down a complex bundler rabbit-hole. Template literals make constructing HTML inside JS components a breeze. And if you do reach for a bundler the modern ones like snowpack and vite make the experience incredible with instant hot module reload on change--the feedback loop for deve…

The problem with JS is not the tooling per se but the constant "upgrades" for the tools that exist. Sure, this week's hot new thing is Vite, but by this time next year it will be out of date with some other thing we're all supposed to use. In projects from the last 10 years, I see Gulp, Grunt, Webpack, Browserify, and now Vite - all doing mostly the same thing in different ways, with different config files.

Re: Flutter 2

#310

Post by qbasic_forever »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #292
qbasic_forever wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same engine of HTML + JS has powered entire businesses and industries from $0 to billions and billions of dollars over 25 years. Amazon.com would not exist without web browsers, and its entire trillion dollar+ business is an enormous bet on the web. I would say there's zero danger of the web going away when folks like that (and many, many more... Google, Facebook, etc.) depend on the web for every microsecond of…

If today FAANG had to choose: shut down your websites or shut down your native apps: which would it be? Which platform did Clubhouse build out first? Why?

Clubhouse is targeting the middle-class silicon valley market right now (quite literally, those are the only people who got invites early on), who of course are infatuated with apps and have the money for fancy phones, tablets, etc. It's smart marketing for them to go where their customers are right now.

The web is for everyone--I can go to an internet cafe in a slum and browse and buy from the same Amazon.com as I can from inside a $15M mansion. It's a quantum leap in access to the world using the web.

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