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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

paygo.media

301–310 of 840 posts

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#301
> we began onboarding people with the wrong state of mind - seeing Waze as a stepping stone and not as a calling.

> There are people who are great for a stage of the company and later, do not have the right skills as the company grows. It is not their fault, it is reality. But not being able to replace them with people that do have the right skills means that people are constantly trying to “offload” an employee on a different team rather than fire them - something that is not conducive with fast moving and changing needs.

One thing that really irritates me is one way commitment. The author wants people who will see their work for the company as a calling, while at the same time having no loyalty to the employee and seeing them as just a stepping stone, to be used when needed and then discarded.

In Japan, the work culture historically was one of crazy dedication to the company. However, it was reciprocated. The company was expected to take care of your whole life, even to the point of coming up with a sinecure for you in your old age. They didn’t just use you and discard you when they thought you were no longer needed.

Every time I see a company talking about how they want employees to see the company as their mission and calling, I look at how they treat employees to see if they plan on reciprocating that loyalty. The answer if pretty much always no. They plan on using your loyalty when it is useful to them, often burning you out, and discarding you when they think you don’t provide value.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#302

It's astounding in so far as how unique this conversation is to tech. I've worked as a pipefitter, electrician's apprentice, and general construction hand in the past - I could only imagine how it would go telling my former foreman that I'd like to head off to yoga in the morning for an hour. Big jobs that require overtime to complete get folks to work that overtime - even within a union. If it's not you, it's someon…

Overtime is remembered a lot less than you think. I have family in the trades and they much prefer their union jobs to my programming one. Yes, I get paid more, but I also work more, in an area where I can’t afford a house.

You aren't constrained to live in those areas to make a living, though. I'm a senior/principal level developer living just outside of Boston (I can walk to a subway in 30 minutes or just hop on a commuter rail stop in about five) and I can very comfortably afford a 4-bed house on a single salary. And the Boston area is not cheap.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#303
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree only in that I worked salaried positions in the trades for some time. While most trades are hourly, there does exist a salaried contingent. The thinking that extra asks from your employer is an intrusion into your life is inherently, entitlement. Solid companies and management will repay that extra effort, in one form or another.

Well by your definition then I’ve come to makepeace with my entitlement, then, if this is truly entitlement to not want a work life that thinks it can intrude on my non-work life without me saying something about it and trying to minimize the blast radius. Yes, I’m entitled. I’m entitled to being defined by more than just how I make money. Yep. 100% Glad we could have this talk. Feels good to finally get that out.

"Human rights, democracies, and whatever... It's all ~~nonsense~~ entitlement..."

(https://pics.me.me/thumb_translated-by-memritv-org-human-rig...)

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#304
Ooof. I think people are picking and choosing too many points to make it seem like this guy is an asshole and a toxic manager.

I read that he wants people to:

- Do their work - Provide value for their users - Get stuff done.

vs

- Work on flashy stuff to only get promotions - Be stuck with BAD employees that do very little - Have employees spend all day doing recreation

Work/life is important to stay healthy but at the same time employees need to get their work done. He is saying that the pendulum has swung too far towards the recreation side of things.

I think I am biased as I worked at a startup that was chasing Google level of perks. They were fantastic but caused a huge divide between the people that abused them and the people that worked their butts off.

All I want is for people to be reasonable and get their stuff done...

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#305
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of benefit called "taking free days last min is no problem"

That's what "personal days" are for. Vacation days are days that are long planned. Sick days are last-minute days for when you are ill. Personal days are last-minute days for when, say, a pipe breaks in your apartment and you have to spend the day dealing with the mess. Or any other non-medical reason you have to be a person and not an employee for a day.

Generally people don't have to use those last minute days often and I don't think that's what OP meant.

It seems like people just were abusing it.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#306

"As I had kids, I learned the importance of being at home for them and that's how I understood Work Life balance - its a balance, sometimes you need to work weekends and nights, sometimes you can head out early or work from home - we balance the needs of the employee and the company." sometimes you need to work weekends and nights while your wife take care of the kids alone so that your career progress and her's not.…

my wife sometimes has to do this on the weekends ( non tech job) and sometimes i have to do on call stuff on weekends. Why are you making this about gender?

To be fair, the above attitude is more common among my male colleagues.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#307
post #173
post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

I agree with all of that except the swearing part. Is swearing in work a big deal in US? I'm Scottish (even worse Glaswegian) so perhaps have a skewed view.

Swearing just changes the dynamic when used in a professional setting (in the US). It is casual, widely interpretable use, generally negative language.

At worst, if targeted to a person, project, or role it immediately heightens the tension in the relationship.

At best, it is used to emphatically describe something ("this code is a bit shitty") but again because of swear words generally inflammatory nature it can be interpreted poorly.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of benefit called "taking free days last min is no problem"

I have often heard personal days are to be used if say, you can't get to work due to transportation issues or if your child is home from school. If they aren't to be used that way how do they differ from vacation days?

Generally people don't have to use those last minute days often and I don't think that's what OP meant.

It seems like people just were abusing it.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#309
While he has valid points of how corp life is different from startup, he seems like a horrible, entitled person to work for.

General attitude that comes out of it to me, is that your employees growth doesn’t matter, only his vision of product matters. He complains about people being entitled, and at the same time he complains that as CEO of subsidiary of one of the biggest company in the world, he cannot say offensive things in his talks.

And most entitled one - he’s sold his company (that he actually didn’t own, from the beginning, like with most startups) and he cannot control it fully anymore? And complaining that he cannot fire people on the spot?

He should check his entitlement before complaining about other being entitled by not wanting to put his product vision above their wellbeing.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#310
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in union shops as well while not being in the union. Union overtime is highly coveted because it's a 2x-3x bonus that a lot of my union friends used towards a downpayment, kids' college tuition, retiring earlier, or starting a business. No one had to step up because everyone was stepping up. And the shop chief usually decided who got that overtime (i.e. young worker trying to buy a house might get higher…

Every tech company I’ve worked at expected me to bring my laptop home every night “just in case we need you to jump in” FANG companies also typically pay your cellphone bill, again because they expect to be able to page and call you at any time.

I do the same but I don't jump in right away. We have runbooks and escalation routines. If it gets to the point that I need to "jump in" I take that time back in the upcoming days and weeks.

As a personal favour I will fire off a private message to whichever colleague is on call if I see they are floundering. Because I'm a good guy and believe the help I give today may be requited down the line.

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