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Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

arstechnica.com

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Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#301

Post by jfoster »

anonytrary wrote: post #191
screye wrote: post #35

I worked with a self-driving product team a couple of years ago. Tesla's approach was looked upon with suspicion and often openly mocked. Tesla's entire self-driving strategy is led by Karpathy, who while brilliant, is an under-experienced researcher with a narrow expertise in large scale 2D CNNs. Tesla (and Comma.ai ?) seem to be the only groups that find Lidar unnecessary for L5 self-driving. I completely agree wit…

I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no such thing as "sort of self driving". It's either completely autonomous or I'm going to have to be paying some attention and I might as well be doing all of the driving at that point.

How about automatic vs manual, or simple cruise control?

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#302

Post by [deleted] »

hartator wrote: post #273
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

Waymo had one of their employees not properly monitoring their car and they killed someone. I dont believe anyone had been killed by the Tesla development team? Couple of customers did die but that was their fault for not monitoring the car? One was watching harry potter I remember.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#303

Post by KorematsuFred »

ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

> while naming the technology "Full Self Driving" and Elon Musk hyping it up every chance he gets on how it will be Level 5-ready by end of the year.

I am an anti-goverment anti-regulation Libertarian and even I think the government has a very legitimate role to play here in regulating this fraud. This is a bit like Humpty Dumpty where the words do not mean what they mean.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#304

Post by ardit33 »

pb7 wrote: post #197
ardit33 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and Larry Ellison, Elon Musk was still too young on the scene in 2008, and not the celebrity he is today.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/true-story-elon-musk-robert-d...

Not sure about that tibit, but in general that book is said to be inaccurate/too rosy of musk.

From what I have heard, it was both:

Elon Musk, Larry Ellison Appear In Iron Man 2

https://www.forbes.com/sites/velocity/2010/04/29/elon-musk-l...

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#305

Post by mongol »

crazygringo wrote: post #210
screye wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference being they are reliable 100% of the time. Cruise control frequently fails and lane assist that explicitly the one that take steering control away from you has put me in dangerous situations more often than it has saved me from them. Lane assist as an alarm to alert you is great though.

I agree on lane assist, but I'm confused, how does cruise control fail? I just set it to a speed on the highway... and the speed stays there until I brake. Are you talking about adaptive cruise control (ACC) to follow the speed of the car in front?

I also don't use cruise control. Not because I don't trust it, but I don't trust myself to react as quickly with it on. If my "gas foot" rests, it will take longer for it to hit the brake if needed, than if I engage continuously while driving. No scientific proof for this, except my own perception of my own attention.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#306

Post by dillondoyle »

Animats wrote: post #168
jiofih wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trusting this anecdote, why don’t you jump over to YouTube and search for “Tesla FSD” to see what it really looks like? Lots of very instructive videos available from people on the beta program.

Yes. Check out this one.[1] Watch the display for what it sees and isn't seeing. Awareness of oncoming traffic is almost nonexistent. Except when the FedEx truck is reflected in some windows; then it detects the reflection as a vehicle. Although the streets are almost empty, the driver takes over frequently. This is way below what Waymo and Cruise can do. [1] https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231

that is terrifying. the next 60 seconds after that is crazy bad.

'that is not ideal'...

We need to legislate this before more people die

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#307

Post by Fricken »

epistasis wrote: post #221
cromwellian wrote: post #194

Watching this video of regular folk (not tech journalists or other "reviewers", or paid PR) riding in FSD Waymo has done a lot to reduce my "but it'll never happen" feeling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAZ6tJSj9T4 It may very well be that future FSD modes will require highly detailed maps, manual curation, limited areas where things can work, but even that would be valuable. e.g. if self driving trucks only work…

Huh, I'm surprised you find those videos convincing about the future of self driving cars. To me, they don't seem much better than the demos people were giving ten years ago, in academic competitions, etc. The Tesla videos scare the hell out of me. My own auto pilot purchase scares me whenever I use it. I can't even use cruise control in my Tesla without it randomly slamming on the brakes. It's pretty straightforward…

Waymo is quite a bit better than they were 10 years ago. It would be harder for a casual observer to note how much Waymo has improved in the past 4 or 5 years because the gains have been made largely at the statistical margins of performance.

It's easy to build a robot that can do one thing right, and that's all you need to get a cool demo. It's hard to build a robot that can deal with the many 1000s of things that can go wrong while attempting to do one thing right.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#308

Post by URSpider94 »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #284
chillfox wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, software that controls a car is a new thing. So I would imagine that it hasn't really been regulated yet in most jurisdictions. For some reason we have a tendency to write laws so that they are specific to individual things rather than general and future prof laws.

I don’t get why it’s not covered under existing laws, clearly every vehicle has to be operated by a driver with a valid license correct? You would think letting a vehicle drive without a licensed operator at the wheel would be negligence.

Nobody is doing that. In the locales where truly autonomous vehicles are being tested, it’s happening under specific legislation and regulations put in place by the states. For Tesla, behind all their bluster, the terms and conditions you accept to use their “self-driving” features make it clear that the human driver is always responsible for safe operation of the car, and all of these features are just to assist the human driver.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#309

Post by mewpmewp2 »

ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

What I wonder is would countries like China be able to reach FSD faster since they would possibly be less ethically bound? And similarly with other tech which otherwise would be limited ethically?

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#310

Post by jfim »

meekrohprocess wrote: post #151
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

I have one question for Tesla customers who trust the company to deliver full FSD. How do you reconcile that belief with the fact that Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance? The NHTSA opened an investigation into premature HUD failures because they prevented the backup cameras from working. But the fact of the matter is, the company used a small partition of in…

> How do you reconcile that belief with the fact that Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance?

That sounds more like the kind of situation where the software department said "we need to have a system that has X amount of storage" and the hardware department made the hardware for it, but there was some missing communication about endurance. It's likely not the same people writing the autopilot software.

That being said, I'm not a Tesla customer, and the way autopilot is deployed and marketed makes me very uneasy.

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