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BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

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Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#301
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the first hardware run will be entirely $140 / 8GiB systems, lower-cost variants with less RAM are expected in following releases. > The initial pilot run of BeagleV will use the Vision DSP hardware as a graphics processor, allowing a full graphical desktop environment under Fedora. Following hardware runs will include an unspecified model of Imagine GPU as well. Sounds like a direct competitor to the Rasp…

Imagination GPU :( Notorious for being hard to support in open source. I'm not even sure there was a single free driver for those. That likely means those devices are going to be stuck on an outdated kernel, unless Imagination steps in and provides ongoing binary support for newer kernels for their GPUs like x86 GPU manufacturers do. However, this being RISC-V with 2 existing devices total, I don't count on it. So cl…

Is it me or does it really feel obnoxious for vendors to then be claiming their hardware to be "TRULY OPEN SOURCE"?

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#302
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. Anyone can design and build a RISC-V CPU without ever getting permission from anyone. Anything that uses the ARM ISA on the other hand requires a (costly) licence from ARM. SiFive has its own proprietary *implementation" buty that's not required, and there are many free open source implementations.

I wrote SiFive CPUs, not RISC-V there. (because this BeagleV board uses SiFive) There's a _huge_ gap between academic implementations and ones that are actually worth shipping. I can see RISC-V winning quite handily for microcontrollers. But on anything bigger than that...

People said that about open source compilers. Where are we now?

You need to give it a few years before you write it off. It's significant that most CS/EE students are now learning the RISC-V architecture.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been delivering that vacuous promise every few years. Being bought by Canyon Bridge, a private equity fund owned by the Chinese government, a few years ago has unfortunately not changed anything.

Totally. Having reverse engineered a bit of the drivers, I think it's because they culturally think that all of their value add is in the software. Patents have expired on the TBDR fixed function hardware blocks. The rest is just a combo of a little RISC core that does job dispatch (Programmable Data Sequencer in their parlance), and a cluster of SMT barrel scheduled cores (used to be called USSE in the SGX days, not…

Was anything about that reverse engineering publicly released?

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#304
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a couple on order, and I've talked to one of the developers. It looks nice - PCIe, NVRAM SSDs, mini ITX format, 16GB RAM, more cores, etc - but not in the same price point or market segment as an SBC. We will likely buy a pile of them to do Fedora builds.

Why would you want use these as build machines? It seems more efficient to just cross-compile on your fastest build machines. You get much faster CI feedback that way. Obviously you want to validate RISC-V code on native devices but using them as builders seems wasteful. I'm genuinely curious why that's desirable. Maybe I just misunderstand your comment and you want the RISC-V boards for validation i.e. make sure you…

Other commenters have pointed out how tricky cross compiling can be. Debian has been making a lot of progress here, most thanks to Helmut Grohne it seems. http://crossqa.debian.net/ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBootstrap (slightly out of date, but still useful)

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of Raspberry Pi as it is, Raspberry Pi 4 in parricular, is is a huge leap forward for the humanity already. The next leap is going to be the same kind of board but with no connectors besides an increasing number of full Thunderbolt 4 ports letting you connect anything you can imagine (incl as many GPIO connectors as you need). There is no need in a zoo of connectors like M.2, U.2, SATA, HDMI etc when we…

There's value in having GPIO pins not behind any bus or controller at all. Don't Thunderbolt controllers need firmware uploaded and such before they start working? How complex is Thunderbolt device and bus enumeration?

Perhaps you're right. In fact I was going to write about connectors of 3 kinds: GPIO, dedicated fan connectors and Thunderbolt-enabled USB-C but then I came to the conclusion you can also put a GPIO controller or a fan on Thunderbolt the Occam's razor suggests we should only leave Thunderbolt - because we can. Apparently Apple thinks the same as it only left USB-C conectors on their recent laptops.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#306
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. Anyone can design and build a RISC-V CPU without ever getting permission from anyone. Anything that uses the ARM ISA on the other hand requires a (costly) licence from ARM. SiFive has its own proprietary *implementation" buty that's not required, and there are many free open source implementations.

I wrote SiFive CPUs, not RISC-V there. (because this BeagleV board uses SiFive) There's a _huge_ gap between academic implementations and ones that are actually worth shipping. I can see RISC-V winning quite handily for microcontrollers. But on anything bigger than that...

Western Digital's open sourced SweRV cores are approximately the same performance as the closed-source SiFive 7-series ones.

The main difference is the WD cores are 32 bit, no MMU, probably DTIM rather than cache (not sure).

The guts of the dual issue decode, register file, pipeline is there, which is the hard part. The other bits could be relatively easily added by the open source community, probably cribbing components from RocketChip.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NUCs costs much more than Pi, even used.

It costs more upfront, but it's worth it because I don't have to spend my time investigating why it's not working. Also, when comparing costs you should take into account things like enclosure, power supply, as card(s) etc. I'd say I probably paid around $250 or so for the NUC and a SODIMM and I had a SATA boot disk already. I had previously owned ODROID, libre computer (le potato), and Pi(s). These were probably in…

Agree on point paid more for features, but x2.5 price is debatable here.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he wants to run a file server from it. This too was my first question.

I'm running a file server with a pi and a USB enclosure for a huge sata drive, and it works fine. Could be neater though.

Yeah, I like data integrity and failsafe setups, so your solution feels to me like standing on 3 stacked chairs while fixing something with live wire.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#309

Is there something inherently complicated in adding a SATA/M.2 port to board like this? The RaspberryPi is also "disk-less", which to me is one of the major limitations. It's a super interesting little board, and I love that it's a RISC-V, that could really help getting the CPU in the hands of people. I just don't know enough about these things to understand why there are no storage connectors (other than an SD card…

You might be interested in the RockPro64 which comes with a PCIe 2.0x4 slot for all your HBA needs. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/ROCKPro64 https://pine64.com/product/rockpro64-4gb-single-board-comput...

The support for PCIe cards is very limited on that board. I've spent too much time trying to get a disk controller to work, and I'm not alone. I ended up buying old server boards with low power xeon processors to accomplish my goal.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#310
post #251

I'm missing OpenGL!

My bad:

https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/01/13/beaglev-powerful-ope...

Says the early boards in March won’t have a GPU but the production boards in September will have an Imagination Technologies GPU.

And apparently they will make a OpenGL driver for it...

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