Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

lists.zx2c4.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 392 posts

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#301

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

zamalek wrote: post #287
tandr wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple should be losing devs in favor of other better platforms, not the other way around. So far, good hardware, close-to-*ix-OS software, and penetration are kind of make them a hard competitor to beat. What other "better" platforms are you thinking about?

System76 is one: https://system76.com/ Edit: and don't forget that ElementaryOS gets you pretty damned close to the Mac UI experience. I personally prefer GNOME, which seemingly steals inspiration from across the industry, so it's different but also really slick (the use of Super/Winkey as both alt-tab and the launcher is genius).

Hmm...maybe. I know several people who have System76 laptops and none of them would say that they're made well. At best they seem to tolerate poor Clevo-rebrand construction out of a desire to support a libre ecosystem. Complaints like needing to reboot to switch between integrated and discrete graphics, low quality screens, extreme fan noise that then interferes heavily with the microphone, and terribly overpromised battery life are the norm. Has something changed very recently?

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#302

Post by smoldesu »

pimeys wrote: post #278
jjcon wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't justify wasting that much time and stress on a platform that clearly is more concerned with meeting the needs of casual users and media professionals rather than developers It’s because Apple prioritizes users over developers that they have so many users.

This is kind of weird though, but aren't developers also users? Or are they just small enough fraction of the users? Probably it just seems bigger here in Hacker News where most of Apple users are also developers...

Developers make up Apple's largest "pro" market, which is part of what makes their treatment of developers confusing. Especially now that they're transitioning to ARM, using a Mac is just an outright disadvantage to developers today.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#303

Post by todd8 »

igetspam wrote: post #193

I'm going to bookmark this reply as an example of how to take feedback and respond appropriately. Jason's explanations both take responsibility for the issues at hand and provide adequate information to understand the difficulty in resolving them. He takes responsibility for a failure in review, which is a common problem I see in engineering orgs. I'm not an Apple user but I have a lot of love for the wireguard proje…

I was going to simply upvote this comment, but I'm chiming in to agree with you because I want to complement Jason for being the kind of developer that I really respect. He provides a tool that so valuable to so many and does so while dealing with a difficult set of requirements imposed by Apple. His response to a frustrated user isn't defensive but helpful and informative. Jason sets an example that the rest of us developers should strive for.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#304

Post by supercheetah »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #301
zamalek wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System76 is one: https://system76.com/ Edit: and don't forget that ElementaryOS gets you pretty damned close to the Mac UI experience. I personally prefer GNOME, which seemingly steals inspiration from across the industry, so it's different but also really slick (the use of Super/Winkey as both alt-tab and the launcher is genius).

Hmm...maybe. I know several people who have System76 laptops and none of them would say that they're made well. At best they seem to tolerate poor Clevo-rebrand construction out of a desire to support a libre ecosystem. Complaints like needing to reboot to switch between integrated and discrete graphics, low quality screens, extreme fan noise that then interferes heavily with the microphone, and terribly overpromised…

I don't know about older models, but my Lemur Pro laptop (released last summer) has been pretty awesome so far, and their cousins about battery life were spot on.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#305

Post by turtlebits »

fluidcruft wrote: post #228
tenacious_tuna wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiya! Former mac native developer here, moving to a new company. My new corp gave me the option of a thinkpad running windows or a Mac, and I chose the mac just so I could have a sane terminal experience, UNIX-like tools, etc. I would vastly prefer to use Linux, but unfortunately that's just not an option for a company-issued machine at this juncture--and in my experience it's easier to spin up a VM on a Mac than a W…

My experience is that Windows Subsystem for Linux has been amazing on Windows and just keeps getting better. I've also never noticed any difference in spinning up VMs. But anyway I get keeping with familiar tools but, I just disagree that MacOS is a better or even "sane" terminal platform. All the ancient GNU tools Mac ships and BSD-style "but Posix!" pedantry drives me up the wall.

I have not used a current version WSL, but it was terrible when I tried it. Could not find files saved in the WSL terminal in explorer (I understand that is a limitation). The was so much unknown going on in the "integration" that I wished I just used a VM and took the perf hit instead of digging to figure out where Windows was mounting the FS and figuring out permissions.

I have no desire to look at WSL ever again.

I experienced the same thing with on F# on mac a year or so ago, the dotnet CLI tool was effectively broken and official onboarding docs didn't work.

I tried revisiting when they announced F# 5 late last year, but same thing, docs don't work/broken on Mac. Turned me off for F# development and leaves me a bad impression on anything Microsoft releases.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#306

Post by DangitBobby »

fluidcruft wrote: post #228
tenacious_tuna wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiya! Former mac native developer here, moving to a new company. My new corp gave me the option of a thinkpad running windows or a Mac, and I chose the mac just so I could have a sane terminal experience, UNIX-like tools, etc. I would vastly prefer to use Linux, but unfortunately that's just not an option for a company-issued machine at this juncture--and in my experience it's easier to spin up a VM on a Mac than a W…

My experience is that Windows Subsystem for Linux has been amazing on Windows and just keeps getting better. I've also never noticed any difference in spinning up VMs. But anyway I get keeping with familiar tools but, I just disagree that MacOS is a better or even "sane" terminal platform. All the ancient GNU tools Mac ships and BSD-style "but Posix!" pedantry drives me up the wall.

The developer experience on my Mac is IMO vastly superior to that on my Windows machine with WSL because of the complication of configuring IntelliJ products to use environments in WSL. When I use VSCode, the experience is about the same in both machines.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#307

Post by lelandbatey »

tandr wrote: post #279
j1elo wrote: post #215

Apple doesn't deserve to have such careful and detail-oriented FOSS developers like Jason, developing for their platform. He is genuinely wasting time in order to work around Apple's developer-unfriendly platform. Not that I should be telling devs where they should spend their time... but I feel like so much effort is being devoted to fix Apple's issues. > When I'm debugging these issues, I'll often times spend a few…

> Apple should be losing devs in favor of other better platforms, not the other way around. So far, good hardware, close-to-*ix-OS software, and penetration are kind of make them a hard competitor to beat. What other "better" platforms are you thinking about?

System76 is the best linux-first manufacturer I've found.

Second best is Dell[0], I have used two generations of their Ubuntu-oriented XPS 13 or Precision laptops. They're fantastic.

[0] - https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#308

Post by bombcar »

vaduz wrote: post #257
bombcar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To defend Apple here - if they allowed “donations” with only a 5% fee you’d have thousands of developers offing “free premium” to “donators”. What Apple needs is a curated system to support open source development for apps - for example, after proving that you really are a non-profit (think Mozilla foundation) Apple could still charge the 30% but then rebate 20% back as a donation from Apple itself. Win/win.

Apple already has such a process - you may not agree with the criteria, but they do outline it quite clearly: 3.2 Other Business Model Issues [..] (vi) Approved nonprofits may fundraise directly within their own apps or third-party apps, provided those fundraising campaigns adhere to all App Review Guidelines and offer Apple Pay support. These apps must disclose how the funds will be used, abide by all required local…

That hot mess is interesting (and obviously never brought up by the Apple is Evil crowd) - if you don't want to identify the destination of funds just don't call it a "Donate" button and let Apple take their cut. 70% of something is still more than 100% of zero.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#309

Post by lalaithion »

fluidcruft wrote: post #228
tenacious_tuna wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiya! Former mac native developer here, moving to a new company. My new corp gave me the option of a thinkpad running windows or a Mac, and I chose the mac just so I could have a sane terminal experience, UNIX-like tools, etc. I would vastly prefer to use Linux, but unfortunately that's just not an option for a company-issued machine at this juncture--and in my experience it's easier to spin up a VM on a Mac than a W…

My experience is that Windows Subsystem for Linux has been amazing on Windows and just keeps getting better. I've also never noticed any difference in spinning up VMs. But anyway I get keeping with familiar tools but, I just disagree that MacOS is a better or even "sane" terminal platform. All the ancient GNU tools Mac ships and BSD-style "but Posix!" pedantry drives me up the wall.

In my personal experience, git crashes about 1 in 3 commands I run on windows. Haskell takes ~10 times longer to compile on a ~4 year old desktop windows machine than a ~6 year old mac laptop. And I usually spend hours trying to get simple tools installed, vs. minutes on macs.

Re: Response to “WireGuard: great protocol, but skip the Mac app”

#310

Post by rurp »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #301
zamalek wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System76 is one: https://system76.com/ Edit: and don't forget that ElementaryOS gets you pretty damned close to the Mac UI experience. I personally prefer GNOME, which seemingly steals inspiration from across the industry, so it's different but also really slick (the use of Super/Winkey as both alt-tab and the launcher is genius).

Hmm...maybe. I know several people who have System76 laptops and none of them would say that they're made well. At best they seem to tolerate poor Clevo-rebrand construction out of a desire to support a libre ecosystem. Complaints like needing to reboot to switch between integrated and discrete graphics, low quality screens, extreme fan noise that then interferes heavily with the microphone, and terribly overpromised…

I have a Sytem76 Oryx as my personal dev machine and a new macbook pro at work. The System76 was much more trouble to setup initially, but has been better in almost every way since then. The Oryx fan can be kind of loud, but the fan on my new macbook is CRAZY loud when it kicks on.

I like the thicker case as well. The mac just feels too flimsy when I'm banging away on the keyboard.

Post reply on HN