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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#301

Post by voxl »

jseliger wrote: post #76
parliament32 wrote: post #26

I don't think "fired" is the right choice of words -- she gave an ultimatum offering to resign, and they accepted her resignation. Is accepting a resignation the same as firing someone? > Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364…

I recently re-read Noah Smith's essay "Leaders Who Act Like Outsiders Invite Trouble" https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-03/leader... . It's not directly on point, but one concept is: "This extraordinary trend of rank-and-file members challenging the leaders of their organizations goes beyond simple populism. There may be no word for this trend in the English language. But there is one in Japanese: ge…

The last thing I would ever want is to model corporate culture after Japan, one of the worst corporate cultures on the planet.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#302

Post by pseudalopex »

parliament32 wrote: post #213
aylmao wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one got fired here. I mean, from the tweets what I gather is she wasn't planning on leaving just yet. Saying "hey, you want to resign by [X] but we'd rather you be gone so let us inform you've just been resigned as of now" is essentially firing [1]. > Offering to resign was a huge mistake. I think this will be good for her in the long term. I'm sure she'll find another research position, and the alternative was…

From the response, it was more like "I want you to do X otherwise I'll resign", and google said "ok, cya". Curious the author isn't willing to publish the actual email, just the management's response.

"I would post my email here but my corp account has been cutoff."[1]

[1] https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334353073012158464

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#303

Post by lawnchair_larry »

tomp wrote: post #89
jeffbee wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it is supposed to work. If you complain to HR about your manager how can they reveal your identity when your manager controls your performance review and compensation?

> That's how it is supposed to work. Are you sure? Even primary school bullying is better, at least you can see the abuser.

Except she is the abuser.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#304

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

tinyhouse wrote: post #95

Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…

> Welcome to the real world, companies have policies and once you join them you lose your freedom to do whatever the heck you want.

Yea there is something uniquely activist academic about all these complaints you see surfacing nowadays.

As though millenials are landing in industry now and they're surprised their employers are companies selling products and not activist organizations.

And you're right it's even funnier when the people complaining are urbane academics from elite institutions outraged that they don't unquestionable authority to enact policy.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#305

Post by defertoreptar »

> This happened to me last year. I was in the middle of a potential lawsuit for which Kat Herller and I hired feminist lawyers who threatened to sue Google (which is when they backed off--before that Google lawyers were prepared to throw us under the bus and our leaders were following as instructed) and the next day I get some random “impact award.” Pure gaslighting.

And she was under the impression that her company would value her so much that, not only they wouldn't take the first "clean" opportunity to let her go, but that they'd want her to stay so much that she could leverage it?

That's just you not realizing how your company sees you as a litigious/PR disaster timebomb and are tiptoeing around you. The worst part is that there was a path for you to be professional and achieve your goals, but then I guess you don't get to bask in Twitter's righteous indignation that way.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#306

Post by Tycho »

mcphage wrote: post #125
Tycho wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the ultimatum part that makes the difference.

So was it a bluff or was it a resignation?

The original post was updated with more information.

Timnit responded with an email requiring that a number of conditions be met in order for her to continue working at Google, including revealing the identities of every person who Megan and I had spoken to and consulted as part of the review of the paper and the exact feedback. Timnit wrote that if we didn’t meet these demands, she would leave Google and work on an end date. We accept and respect her decision to resign from Google.

I would say that describes a conditional resignation, and the fact that she called this “being fired” indicates she didn’t really plan to resign (ie. she was bluffing).

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#307

Post by lawnchair_larry »

black_puppydog wrote: post #220
southstreet wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"feedback" here seems to refer to feedback on the scientific paper that is being retracted, not personal performance feedback or anything like that. When I red this first, wasn't immediately clear what this was about.

Good point, that also took a bit of disentangling for me. As such, I find it really quite baffling that someone would be unwilling to share that scientific feedback with her, or who raised it.

Because she goes on unhinged rants and smears people by calling them racists, probably. Nobody wants to stick their hand in that hornets nest.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#308

Post by mring33621 »

chrisbroadfoot wrote: post #293
tinyhouse wrote: post #95

Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…

What about that thread shows she's toxic?

I second this question. I would say, from the little I know about her, that she is both challenging and interesting, both in a really good way.

I really enjoyed this deck of hers, which I found as a result of reading this thread:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rcG8KVmjRUWWNSg-R6cTBlAScP9...

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#309

Post by aparsons »

interblag wrote: post #274
aparsons wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She claims to be a leading researcher in the field, but has she written any significant papers or research of note? Her biggest accomplishment seems to be driving Yann LeCunn off Twitter with angry accusations. She tried to continue her power trip at a workplace but her boss called her bluff. This is a great firing for Google. She won’t be missed.

> Her biggest accomplishment seems to be driving Yann LeCunn off Twitter... Umm, among the other issues with your post, Yann LeCunn last tweeted 12 hours ago... https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1334409408537825282 ("she turned me into a Newt!")

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23696427

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#310

Post by zemo »

mcguire wrote: post #226
zemo wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1163637485533929473 her research has been cited in multiple lawsuits and piece of legislation. It is clear from the tone of your comment that you like technology because technology is power, and your interest is not in seeing technology used to create a better future for all mankind, but to instead reach the top of existing structures of power and to dominate others.

Is there any chance of avoiding personal attacks?

OP's post is a long string of personal attacks against Timnit so this comment is pathetic and hilarious. The entirety of this site is just worshiping at the altar of technosupremacy and comments in this thread have put that reality on full display. I am not surprised by the cowardice on display, but I am surprised by the uniformity.
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