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S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

reuters.com

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Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#301

Post by andrewmcwatters »

vmception wrote: post #295
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #276

I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…

Although digital asset prices are not a good proxy for their utility, there are plenty of utility for enough people and that expands and the addressable market expands. Crypto businesses are very lucrative so don’t be too busy asking why when you should be asking how

I’m not asking why, because anyone can find instances of mania in history such as this. Beanie babies. Tulips.

The law of large numbers, in this case—the speculative experiment of seeking returns from assets that do not produce value, will iron this out. History does not repeat, but it rhymes often enough for those who know the tune to sing along.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#302

Post by NicoJuicy »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #276

I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…

And where halve of the raise on crypto is because of tether...

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#303

Post by lawn »

tyrust wrote: post #288
lawn wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you take Bitcoin Cash as an example of a non-reputable cryptocurrency is pretty sad. (And it's #5 not #7.) Ripple is for instance not a cryptocurrency, and everyone knows about the scam that is Tether. Litecoin has zero development (except to copy what Bitcoin is doing) and the development in Bitcoin itself has some serious issues.

I feel like such a slanted take should come with a disclaimer of your holdings.

I hold much more Monero than anything else.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#304

Post by miguelmota »

puranjay wrote: post #231
miguelmota wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you seeing on Uniswap that’s a scam? Why do you think people need credentials to create a startup if they have a good idea?

> Why do you think people need credentials to create a startup if they have a good idea? They don't. But good credentials are a signal in a crowded field where most projects are just whitepapers. They might not matter in the startup world where you usually launch with at least an MVP. But in the crypto world, most new coins are just whitepapers. You at least need to know that the founders have the technical knowhow t…

I think it's simply the nature of crowdsourced funding that creates more ideas that get funded, both good and bad.

For example, anyone can start a funding campaign to launch a product on Indiegogo and most of the projects on there aren't revolutionary.

The same thing occurs in crypto where anyone can invest in a new ideas via a token sale or DAO because crypto is borderless and open to anyone, analogous to Indiegogo projects getting funding from non-institutional investors and many of those projects becoming a flop.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#305

Post by nmlnn »

brightball wrote: post #222
spurgu wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a society not based on consumerism and quarterly report increases. Gasp! Back in the day people used to get interest (covering more than inflation) from holding money in their bank accounts. What's changed?

My understanding has always been interest rates. Interest rates on savings accounts are supposed to be slightly lower than interest rates on loans with the bank taking a profit in the middle. Home loans used to be much higher, in the 10-15% range and you could get 6-7% on your savings account. With home loans in the 2-3% range, those margins aren't feasible anymore. But that's probably an old understanding. I'm sure…

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-...

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#306

Post by the_gastropod »

feanaro wrote: post #300
the_gastropod wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has been around for about a decade now. It didn’t take anywhere near that long for the internet, large touch screen phones, the cloud, etc. to really catch on. And for every technological advance met with skepticism that eventually succeeded, there are orders of magnitude more that crashed and burned (e.g., the segway, 3D televisions, HD DVD, and countless others)

> Bitcoin has been around for about a decade now. It didn’t take anywhere near that long for the internet That's not true, as is obvious with only basic fact checking. Apart from it not being obvious what you mean by "internet" (does ARPANET count?), the internet proper saw its first commercial access providers appear in 1989[1] and it certainly was nowhere near popular in 1999 as it is now. In fact, I would say the…

> the internet proper saw its first commercial access providers appear in 1989[1] and it certainly was nowhere near popular in 1999 as it is now

The internet had 248 Million users in 1999 [1] Bitcoin has, estimating very liberally ~28M users worldwide [2].

> It's vastly more popular then 10 years ago, because now my plumber and barber ask me about it, it is regularly talked about in the news and there are almost no countries without laws enacted as a response to it.

Nobody's disputing that. As in my previous examples, we've all heard of 3D televisions, segways, HD DVD's, 8-track, beta max, Theranos, Juicero, and tons of other laughably bad ideas. That doesn't indicate success.

[1] https://www.internetworldstats.com/emarketing.htm

[2] https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoin-users/

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#307

Post by modeless »

root_axis wrote: post #299
modeless wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it's a "cultural property of the community" doesn't make it easy to change. Bitcoin is not just "a computer program", it is a program and a blockchain. The same program with a different blockchain is not Bitcoin (there are plenty of those out there). Adding more supply to the Bitcoin blockchain would require large numbers of people to work against their own interests, decimating the value of their own i…

The point is that the scarcity can be trivially changed if certain people decide that it should, which isn't true for things that exist in the real world like gold. Norms shift over time and your suggestion that it's unlikely to change is your opinion based on cultural analysis, not something that can be proven to be true even in principle. > It would be much, much more difficult to change than e.g. the supply of dol…

You can't "prove" that Earth's gold supply won't increase with asteroid mining either. We can disagree on the relative difficulty of asteroid mining vs. changing Bitcoin's consensus rules, but you must at least concede that they are both possible.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#308

Post by vmception »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #301
vmception wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although digital asset prices are not a good proxy for their utility, there are plenty of utility for enough people and that expands and the addressable market expands. Crypto businesses are very lucrative so don’t be too busy asking why when you should be asking how

I’m not asking why, because anyone can find instances of mania in history such as this. Beanie babies. Tulips. The law of large numbers, in this case—the speculative experiment of seeking returns from assets that do not produce value, will iron this out. History does not repeat, but it rhymes often enough for those who know the tune to sing along.

Rattling off references to other asset bubbles only shows how little you know about those asset bubbles and undermines the credibility of your strongly held opinions on what makes an asset worth paying attention to.

For starters, you should probably start over on whatever you think you know about the tulips. Primarily its relation to tulip derivatives and the spot market of tulips, and the government's role in the dutch derivatives market at that time. And secondly, the length of that asset price distortion, compared to the crypto markets.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#309

Post by pshc »

Afton wrote: post #286
dehrmann wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also lose bitcoins, I assume easier than losing physical currency or a bank account.

One of the ways I don't feel bad about not making millions in BTC even though I was aware of it long ago is the absolute certainty that I would have simply lost the paper wallet, had a hard-drive failure, etc, etc. There is just no way I would have held onto my keys for the 7 years that I was aware of it. I imagine that the breakage here for early investors is probably pretty high. I never did cash out on my dogecoin…

It’s not impossible to make copies of and secure private keys if you have a plan. (But even if you had bought some and preserved it, would you have had the tenacity/foresight to hold onto the BTC for 7+ years?)

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#310

Post by e_y_ »

eruleman wrote: post #177
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply of capital-B Bitcoin is 21M, but at any time, anyone can create Bitcoin2, which is an exact clone of Bitcoin but with a fresh chain. Any Bitcoin2 token has exactly the same utility as a Bitcoin token in principle - the only difference is that, for now at least, lots of people are mining Bitcoin and no one is mining Bitcoin2. If there comes a day when a lot of people think there should be 42M bitcoins, inst…

It's easy to create a fork of software. It's hard to create a fork of firmware running in people's minds.

I think the main thing Bitcoin has going for it is name recognition. Would be better if we could leave proof-of-work in a flaming trash pile and migrate Bitcoin to Ethereum (and rename it Bitcoin)
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