301–310 of 427 posts
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Very few people hold that moral view. There are various reasons people become vegan or vegetarian, there's no single premise.
Doesn't that then go further to the point? It's not a matter worth moralizing over—rather a personal preference and pragmatic approach to that end.
Why not? We already have some laws against animal cruelty. Thankfully we don't treat that as a matter of personal choice.
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That's not the premise at all. That's a disingenuous strawman that anti-vegans would say to eachother about vegans to rile themselves up. It shows a total lack of understanding of what they're really about.
Please don't twist my contributions to being so ill-hearted. We're supposed to respond to each comment with generosity around here—defaulting to sincerity. The discussion began with moralizing about eating other living things.
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Hacker News, where technology > empathy
I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…
Also, we evolved without living in stone structures and sewn clothes. I don’t see you asking people who wear jeans and tshirts to defend themselves.
I’m neither, but you’re arguing a straw man version of what either vegetarianism or veganism is.
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No disrespect but I see this "I'm an athlete, I need more protein" thing all the time. It's yet another meme that has spread that has the convenient side effect (or main effect) of shutting people off from considering the effects of their food choices. There are an abundance of plant-based protein supplements for hitting your nutrition targets. I don't know if you're talking about the broader community of people who…
I wasn't sure about this because it contradicts my priors so I did some quick searching: Venus Williams is a "chegan" and uses milk-based protein. Lewis Hamilton is a driver and is unlikely to have protein demands related to his sport that are different than the average person. Colin Kaepernick became a vegan at approximately the same time he stopped playing professionally. Kyrie Irving: I can't find what he does for…
Professional surfing is not physically demanding and doesn't require needs different from normal people? Do you think that they just casually go out on the water once a week? Also, from my brief experiences surfing, I seem to recall it being one of the most physically taxing sports I've ever done, in terms of total body usage.
Valid points about needing to distinguish between professional athletes who were vegan at their peak versus after their peak, and diving into the details about how precisely how "vegan" each of the people I quoted actually are.
> Thanks for the reply and much respect to you for making ethical decisions a central part of your lifestyle.
Thank you for the respect, the feeling is mutual
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> Nothing's ever enough for vegans. That's a weird complaint on a site about eternal disruption, eternal improvement of things that are basically fine already. I'm an omnivore, and I'm comfortable with it. But that doesn't keep me from recognizing the ethical issues with killing and controlling other beings to survive. I really appreciate people pushing the envelope on this. If I could eat basically the same diet but…
Hacker News, where technology > empathy
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Some people may argue that raising and killing one "meat-efficient chicken" is preferable to raising and killing three "inefficient" ones from a moral point of view.
Would they be willing to actually pay for it?
Cmrdporcupine says the only reason to prefer raising and killing one “good” chicken rather than three “bad” ones would be that it’s cheaper.
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As a vegan myself I think appealing to empathy is probably counterproductive because it implies that meat eaters don't have empathy. It's basically the vegan-mirror-equivalent of slothtrop's "Nothing's ever enough for vegans." comment. I feel like "meat eaters don't have empathy" is the common judgment that vegans cast on meat eaters, and "vegans are unrealistic, holier-than-thou perfectionists" is the common judgmen…
I didn’t try to imply anything. I’m no vegan myself. Empathy is a great quality to cultivate; I don’t know if an ideal world is a vegan one, but I’m sure an ideal world treats humans, animals and living systems (intentionally avoiding the plants debate going on) with a great deal of empathy and respect.
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Unless the chickens are kept after they finish laying eggs, no commercial egg laying is no kill. Most battery or free range hens are killed (or if they're lucky, rescued for home use) at a year old as they approach their first moult.
At the very least it's still less-kill.
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It's the whole abortion vs infanticide debate. People almost universally feel that infanticide is wrong. Abortion for whatever reason is easier for people to stomach. Basically it's easier for people to feel good about preventing an embryo from turning into a cute little baby than it is for them to immediately kill that cute little baby once it's born.
One part that is different is that a human / mammal embryo is literally inside of another human, putting a strain on the parent's resources and health. A bird embryo is much more independent, pretty much only needing some heat.
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I value ethics and empathy deeply but, I don't understand vegans and vegetarians. Their biggest line of defense is "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food". That's sadly right. And they implicitly say that "eating plants are OK because, plants are not animals and they're just happen to grow. They don't feel, they don't understand". On the contrary, there's a growing mountain of re…
As a real vegan (not a meme about vegans that you saw from meat eaters) I can confidently tell you that "animals are alive and they have feelings and senses, we abuse them for food" is not my biggest line of defense. My biggest lines of defense are: * Dr. Kim Williams, former president of the American College of Cardiology, said "there are two kinds of cardiologists, vegans, and those who haven't read the data" * Ani…