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Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

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301–310 of 446 posts

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#301
post #157

I'd go and get it ASAP, so I resume my life. Anti-vaxxers can isolate themselves forever :)

I'm not anti vaxx. But I totally understand after institution after institution failed us all, that people will be skeptical about a miracle vaccine developed in mere months. I have faith in the scientists, but anyone can see the incentives are dodgy here.

I think it's easier to support this concern the older you get. Here's why: as you age, you begin to see documentaries on TV and YouTube that expose widespread government coverup and misinformation operations from the past, (and this is crucial) about episodes through which you lived. The obvious example for me is the nuclear industry. A concrete example: in the 1970s we were told that nuclear power plants were entirely safe because a) they have control rods to stop fission and b) they're safely contained. As an engineering student I would have happily told friends and family these things as received facts. In reality a) post-scram the reactor carries on dissipating megawatts so it will easily melt and b) all sorts of gas and liquid under pressure needs to be vented from the containment system and c) some of those gasses are explosive, so it isn't able to contain. Fukushima nicely illustrated these factors. Iterate this a few times and you end up with this uneasy feeling that nothing you're told with authority can be relied upon. Having gone through the experience of believing something then discovering it was a lie feels different than someone just telling you that governments and authority figures lie.

Not saying here that one should avoid the vaccine, just that experience shows that a healthy skepticism is warranted. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the other choice is a demonstrably inferior learning environment, economic ruin, and a major public health hazard that has already killed just shy of 250k people in just over 9 months.

So vaccinate those at serious risk who we were closing things down for in anticipation of the vaccine. When the serious at risk people are no longer seriously at risk then there is no need for all the shutdowns. No need to vaccinate everyone is there?

I don't think that's how vaccines generally work. The virus won't actually disappear, it'll continue to be spread among the unvaccinated, and eventually people not at risk become at risk due to changes in life circumstances.

I'm also not sure there's quite the bright line you seem to be suggesting between "at risk" and "not at risk." Young health people still die of COVID-19, just not at as high a rate as already-unhealthy or older people.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#303
post #176

How would one explain to a Facebook addict why they should get the vaccine and that it's not a Bill Gates/NWO conspiracy to sterilise them?

Refuse to ever see them in person again until they do. Block them from viewing your Facebook wall until they do. Open every phone conversation by asking them if they have done so, and to send you a photo of the certificate if they did, or otherwise politely but firmly end the conversation and hang up. If they show up to a family gathering, leave immediately and take your children with you. Ask them to send you a phot…

That's a great list of things to do if you want to feel self-righteous, but what do you do if you actually want to convince them?

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#304
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I have very different definitions of stupid. Requiring an entire country to go whole hog on something with zero real understanding of long term effects is my definition of stupid. When is that ever the wise thing to do?

I actually don't think the federal government has the power to require it. However, private companies and schools can impose whatever safety requirements they feel prudent for their employees, customers, and students. Which may of course make life difficult for those who don't want to go along.

The US federal government can require it by passing laws if they see fit to do so. Presumably the states with the highest Covid infection rates would fight it in court on some constitutional basis to avoid vaccination, and some armed citizens would kill medical personnel enforcing the federal directive, but none of that prohibits the laws from being passed.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#305
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If it's the same as all of them then should we expect the same consequences as the N1H1 vaccine in 2009/2010? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcoleps...

From the linked article: Pandemrix was not licensed for use in the United States.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Those are legitimate concerns. This vaccine has only been tested for a small number of months. We simply don't know whether it is safe long-term and what exact statistical level of safety it has. This is not some quasi-scientific bullshit about energies, these are simple medical facts. We have not been testing them. Testing is the only scientific method that matters. I don't thin…

My theory is that anti vaxxers have poisoned the public conversation (if you say anything questioning a vaccine you shall be shunned). I plan to get this vaccine and generally trust our scientific institutions. But of course there are legitimate safety concerns with injecting stuff into people - which is why they ran a huge study to show that there are no short term safety concerns. I'm just asking (not implying anyt…

It is my understanding that adversaries of Western nations have already started disinformation campaigns to mess up the vaccination effort. The entire Bill Gates / 5G causes COVID discussion from a few months back was fabricated; their current playbooks should be more sophisticated and target also outside the big social networks, perhaps even on this very site.

Also, that governments will show little patience for anti-vax talk of its citizens. They'll have to switch talking points from avoiding panic (It's harmless for young people!) to accepting the vaccine (There are many long-term effects of infection!). A Herculean effort in balancing propaganda with allowing free speech.

If nothing else, it is going to be interesting watching the next months unfold. Saying you are refusing the vaccine may simply put you on a list, but openly detracting from the vaccination efforts, should see some actual (and scary) pushback.

Public health will be an increasingly difficult thing to manage, when individuals get the information for their decisions online (however wrong).

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the wise thing to do for the polio vaccine.

The risk profile for all the age groups is wildly different. I don't think its a bad idea for people > age X to get this vaccine, one because they have a much higher risk of serious harm from corona _AND_ perhaps less risk of long term affects. But for someone who has very low risk of serious harm from corona, perhaps it makes sense to wait a little bit?

Depends on what you mean by "a little bit." My understanding is that general availability isn't expected until probably April of 2021, by which point health care workers and other high risk groups of people will have had the vaccine for five months, and the trial participants for six months.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Indeed! And I'll be going with the adenoviral route which has been used for more than fifty years, rather than the brand new, first time ever mRNA product. Interesting, I feel the exact opposite. I can't wait to take a mRNA vaccine, but the adenovirus ones seem sketchy given that Sinovac, J&J, and AstraZeneca have all seen serious adverse events in their trials, while Pfizer and Moderna have seen none, along with mu…

Bacillus Calmette-Guerin (BCG): https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a682809.html

Isn't it using a bacterium?

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#310
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully expect that once it is widely available (major caveat), many workplaces and schools will require it absent medical exceptions. Certainly, most schools require vaccinations today and I don't expect there will be a lot of sympathy for those that want to hold off.

I don’t think voluntary exceptions will be granted for Covid, and I’m hard-pressed to come up with a case where an involuntary medical exception would be necessary for someone that is mobile. (No doubt a one in a billion case exists, of course.)

Allergies to one of the components? Raw egg allergies can preclude some vaccinations.
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