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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#301
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What time do the stores close in Helsinki? I heard in Sweden from a friend who lived there briefly that everything was dark and closed early like 6-7pm. The opposite of a place like NYC or even here in downtown Toronto where it's normal to find plenty to do until midnight. They said it was some sort of strict cultural thing. Everyone wakes up early and you got to get used to that early schedule. And I've been a life…

Is this really a quality of life thing? Are you going to make your decisions about where your live because you have to run your errands before a certain time? That said, there's no issue in Helsinki. Big shops and malls are open until 8-10, some smaller shops might close around 18 but they have to go home to feed their families. The 24/7 lifestyle might be convenient, but I've never thought I might need it.

As I mentioned I've been a night hawk for life and tried many times to switch to waking up early and failed.

So yes it would be infinitely boring for someone like me to live in a city like that, it's a deal-breaker.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am less concerned with the taxes, and more concerned that Amazon/Google/etc happily pay ten times that salary. It's literally an order of magnitude difference, and contracting hourly rates seems like a similar story. I would happily pay 3-5x the taxes for a similar salary to emigrate, but if you offer me 1/10 the pay? That's tough. It makes me feel like there isn't a big market for my services across the pond. It's…

While most salaries fall into the aforementioned ranged, I'd point out that software companies in Finland with "scalable" business models, do have pay more inline with big tech companies. Obviously there aren't many of these jobs but I'd point to gaming companies like Supercell and Seriously.

There are certainly exceptions, and I have a lot of respect for successful EU tech companies!

But I really dislike rat-races, so I tend to avoid areas with loads of competition. The US tech market is like a bottomless money pool, and it's hard to justify putting a lot of effort into moving somewhere that would tie you to a few well-paying employers.

I like working on and learning about things that benefit the people around me! But I also like relaxing and not starving. C'est la vie: it's not perfect.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding dentisty: Yes, but they can be pricy. I think I had some minor filling work done once and it ended up being around 200-300e. There is absolutely no issue if your issue is acute or serious with the public healthcare. But as mentioned, if your issue is complicated (e.g. i have an undiagnosed hip issue for a year) it takes ages to get scans and such.

That’s on par with what you have to pay in the US.

Yes, but salaries over here are 3-4x less.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also pays for education, and you don't need to look at the US for long to see why it's worth investing in having literate citizens.

Is this supposed to be an insult to the US? The literacy rate is 99%, and a higher % of the population has a tertiary education than finland, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiar...

>Is this supposed to be an insult to the US?

Yes, but it's one I hope I'll one day no longer be able to use.

> The literacy rate is 99%

So, there's a decent chance you Googled "US literacy rate" and copy-pasted it from there. I would recommend clicking the actual article and reading through it, because Google's quote is... not exactly representative of what's contained within.

If you didn't do that, you're probably citing this from the World Factbook, who use a definition of literacy broadly encapsulated by "is capable of reading". By that definition, if you can look at some words and then say them out loud, you're literate. Useful for developing countries or historical contexts, but not exactly meaningful in a modern society with many resources.

These days most literacy studies look at actually understanding content, and being able to reason about it. This typically includes some level of numerical literacy (not necessarily mathematics, but e.g., being able to understand the difference between a million and a billion), as well as things identifying internally contradictory statements. By those standards, the United States does abysmally.

It's worth noting here that the U.S. does disproportionately suffer in some studies that look specifically at literacy in a small number of official languages (English for the U.S., occasionally also including Spanish), rather than counting literacy in any language as sufficient. My comments here are in regards to the latter.

> and a higher % of the population has a tertiary education than finland

The people who choose to go to tertiary education in the United States (or indeed any other country) are not usually the people in desperate need of better education. The problem is predominantly in insufficient primary and secondary schooling, combined with a cultural attitude of anti-intellectualism that leads to many people thinking they never need to learn a thing once they exit the school system.

Not a uniquely American phenomenon (Michael Gove's "the people have had enough of experts" quote being a particularly flagrant European example), but one that's uncomfortably persistent there. For example, it takes a very unintelligent person to be in the middle of a global pandemic, yet think that the opinion of a reality TV host is more important than the professional advice of a doctor. Those people exist everywhere, but they exist in astonishing concentrations in the United States.

> I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

My point is that, as someone who lives in neither North America or Europe, if I had to pick a random adult citizen from the population of either the United States or Finland to make a rational decision for me, I'm picking Finland.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#305
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your employer didn't provide short/long term disability insurance?

Do you live and work in America?

Yes I do. If you have a six figure salary (or even a bit less), an employer will certainly buy a short/long term disability plan for their employees. Its a perk even small startups can afford.

Also California is unique among the states in that it runs a mandatory short term disability plan through payroll deductions but employers are able to buy enhanced plans which cover higher income thresholds.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#306
post #288
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you pay for private dentists, or similar, if you need more immediate service If you need immediate service, you get to a fast track queue and can get free dentist care on the same day. If it's non-acute, you can go to a private clinic which is highly subsidized but does costs some money. But nothing like in the US. > And is the wait similar for major things like cancer, brain tutor, or heart surgery If you have…

No offense but OP is right and you are wrong. Health care in Scandinavia is great in many ways and not so great in others. People do suffer, even die, waiting in line for public treatment, and health care lawsuits aren't really a thing.

I live here. Never heard of anyone who died waiting for care. It's extremely rare.

There are sometimes investigative journalism of malpractice cases in the media, but that happens on the private sector too. Yes, many people are often frustrated when they have to wait for their non-acute check up times, but "people dying in queues" as something that would be normal here in Helsinki is a total myth.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#307
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these numbers are correct, the payroll taxes total about 13% higher than American payroll taxes, but if you add in what Americans pay for the health insurance that’s presumably included in one of these taxes, it’s probably fairly similar. 20-30% is a very normal marginal American tax rate, and the VAT is high (looks like it may be lower for certain things), but not ridiculous compared to a lot of American state in…

> (looks like it may be lower for certain things) Namely, 14% for food (both groceries and restaurant, excl. alcohol), 10% for books, exercise services like gyms, culture/entertainment tickets, hotel accommodation, public transit, and over-the-counter drugs (prescription drugs are heavily subsidized by the state).

14% for food is quite high, but I've personally lived in two cities with a 10.25% sales tax (Chicago & Santa Monica); so that's not far out of line with at least some American cities.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#308
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense but OP is right and you are wrong. Health care in Scandinavia is great in many ways and not so great in others. People do suffer, even die, waiting in line for public treatment, and health care lawsuits aren't really a thing.

Finland is not Scandinavia and its systems are not necessarily comparable. You have shortcomings in any healthcare system, but I'd take this and all its flaws in a heartbeat over the absolute shitshow that is the US healthcare system.

Finland is very much Scandinavia, but that's a complete side note.

The point is, it's absolutely not true that health care in Finland or the rest of Scandinavia is anywhere near as good as popularly imagined by Americans or even by many Scandinavians themselves. Anyone who moves to Scandinavia thinking the high taxes will give complete access to instant top notch treatment in case of cancer or many other conditions will have been straight up misled and deceived.

Pointing that out doesn't imply thinking US health care is preferable or better - I certainly don't.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#309
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yyyy-mm-dd for the win indeed, if only for being naively sortable.

Yyyy-mm-dd is not used in real life because it puts the (in most contexts) least useful information first.

ISO 8601 also allows --mm-dd.

I use it all the time.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#310
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Techinically , you are right, but as with the treaty with Iran[0], or the Paris Agreement[1], etc. the US can leave. The US can basically do what it wants, and the political consequences are relatively minor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#Withdrawal_fro...

This interpretation of this "obligation" is true of any "obligation". "Obligations" are inherently a social capital forcing function conception. They can always be violated so this point is pretty moot.

You're getting caught on semantics rather than understanding my argument. See my edit on the original comment

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25004980

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