Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#301

Post by harha » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

patrickk wrote: post #283

harha wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher taxes won’t get stable and fast internet (or anything else being efficient) - neighboring Germany has high taxes, expensive services and very slow internet even within cities. Also the trains are notoriously unpunctual, and expensive compared to other EU countries. The cause of the internet seems to be a mix of the mobile frequency auctions that didn’t leave any money for a good network combined with low compe…

> The cause of the internet seems to be a mix of the mobile frequency auctions that didn’t leave any money for a good network combined with low competition. The version I read for Germany was that when the mobile broadband spectrum was originally auctioned off, the purchase price for the spectrum was too high. So the pensioners and other investors who bought in demanded a juicy return on investment despite overpaying…

I have the impression that corruption and being overly friendly towards big corporations seems to be quite the issue, compared to other places I know well the infrastructure is pretty bad (though other large European countries aren't much better - UK, France).

The auction could have easily been fixed, by imposing and enforcing strict rules on maximum prices, minimum coverage and mandating in-country roaming. After all the frequencies should benefit the whole public. With such rules the outcome would have been a much better network, allowing for growth in other regions.

The article you've shared is very interesting, would be helpful if more Germans were informed about this.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#302

Post by majewsky » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

greenpresident wrote: post #235

hansvm wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting idea. I wonder how workable it would be to automate tolling based on axle weight.

Germany has a toll system for trucks only: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LKW-Maut From Wikipedia: > Germany's LKW-Maut is a toll for goods vehicles based on the distance driven in kilometres, the emission category of the vehicle and the number of axles. It's meant to compensate some of these damages caused by high weight. If I remember correctly, road damage scales at a power of four of axle weight. It's billed semi-…

Legal side note: Germany also has a vehicle tax that roughly scales with the size of the vehicle. But this only applies to vehicles registered in Germany. Because of the European Single Market, a lot of trucks running on German highways are registered in foreign countries (esp. Eastern Europe since drivers from those countries draw smaller salaries). The toll was enacted specifically to ensure that those foreign trucks contribute towards road maintenance as well. It does apply to German trucks, too, because the EU has rules against laws that discriminate against foreign EU citizens.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#303

Post by unpopular42 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 9:42 AM UTC

_AzMoo wrote: post #159

unpopular42 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss taxes vary by location but are generally not higher than the US taxes. So it's not about paying more, it's about wasting less.

It's about priorities. Swiss defense spending as a percentage of GDP is 0.675%. US defense spending as a percentage of GDP is 3.2%. I just picked a simple example, but you will find similar disparities across the board.

The defence spending isn't much compared to the social expenditures. Switzerland spends roughly 30% on social/welfare (and roughly 10% on transportation infra). US spends roughly 50% of its budget on social/welfare and it ain't getting better any time soon.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#304

Post by samdoidge » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

RajuVarghese wrote: post #289

ornornor wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SBB is indeed amazing. Trains are in pristine condition, second class is first class or business class by most other countries standards, the toilets are clean and functional aboard any train I’ve ever taken with stocked water soap and paper (hello sncf, no water or soap or light even during the epidemics), the trains are ON TIME (like to the minute on time), they’re incredibly quiet, all long distance trains hav…

As a user of the SBB (Swiss railways) for over 30 years I have had a few mishaps (canceled or late trains, bad connections, etc) but, by and large, I have been happy with what I paid for transportation. It is very reliable and convenient. Something like this could not have been pulled off by a private entity. The government has to run a service like this. I am glad that we did not follow the lead of the UK during Mag…

You say this could not have been pulled off by a private entity, but I would argue the Japanese train system is equal, if not better and to my knowledge is privately ran.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#305

Post by Zach_the_Lizard » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #287

yitianjian wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Northeast has a density comparable to Europe. I do agree on the culture issue, however - Americans definitely prefer cars by default. Although in the Washington-Philadelphia-NYC-Boston corridor it may be possible, if there is ever a culture of large public works again.

Surely having big train stations with massive car parks just outside towns will fit well with car culture. My other idea is high speed trains where you can take your car with you, like eurotunnel but faster.

The US actually has this. It's called the Auto Train: https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train

Runs from just outside of DC to Florida.

In the Northeast, Amtrak has pretty much captured the NYC DC market for business travel.

What's holding it back is a lack of capacity and slower speeds than you'd find in, say, Europe.

Why it's slow is a complex problem with many causes.

It's partly due to US regulations that cause trains to be heavier, slower and more expensive than overseas.

The infrastructure is also old, dating back to the 1800s in some cases, causing bottlenecks in key areas. One 1870s-era tunnel in Baltimore brings speeds down to 30mph for what feels like an eternity.

Amtrak is also not super great at running the NEC. The physical infrastructure could do more, and relatively cheap changes could have a large impact.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#306

Post by eythian » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

koyote wrote: post #50

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

They are using the same technique they use in Japan. In Tokyo, you get full signal strength, wherever you are (even in tunnels going underwater). That's because they have mobile antennas everywhere , including lining all the railway lines. I'll bet that their service ain't so cheap, though (I was roaming, when I was there, and that was definitely not cheap).

I remember going through a tunnel in a shinkansen at around 300kph and doing a speed test as I was surprised to still have full 4g signal. It was faster than the max speed I'd ever recorded back in London. Meanwhile when I was living in the US I had to put my phone next to the window to receive ANY signal at all. This was on a university campus. I would love to know how Japan built their system (was it publicly funde…

I'm not sure if it's the same thing in Japan, but how they get signal in the metro in Amsterdam is interesting. Effectively it's coax cable running along the tunnel with holes in the shielding to let the signal leak out.

Article (in Dutch): https://tweakers.net/nieuws/141195/mobiel-netwerk-met-leaky-...

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#307

Post by DrBazza » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

singhrac wrote: post #4

I would honestly pay significantly higher taxes if we could get Swiss-quality train service in parts of the US (and especially if they have good internet). When I traveled Boston to NY in the past, compare my flight experience vs Amtrak. Flight: - Take $25 Uber to airport and get there 1 hour early to go through security and wait. - Fly to JFK (1h 20m) - land, wait to get off, go through terminal again, then take $50…

> (a) the US is bigger, so infrastructure cost more [and flights scale easier],

In Europe at least, it's quite densely populated (relative to the US), so the land costs for building new railways is incredibly expensive. In the UK, more and more miles of track are being buried in tunnels (the High Speed 1 line has 3 of the top ten longest tunnels in the UK), and HS2 add to that.

In the US, you have thousands of square miles of empty land where you can just run a straight line 200mph train through it.

I don't think US politicians realise how transformational it would be to the economy to join up East coast cities and West coast cities with high speed rail. I suppose the airline lobby groups are keeping a lid on it.

European example: the Eurostar train from London to the French Alps, door-to-door, is practically the same, if not quicker, than driving to the airport, going through customs, getting the 90 minute flight, then the transfer to the ski resort. At the same time, the train is carrying over 1000 people, vs. a plane with only 200.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#308

Post by Ichthypresbyter » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #186

wpdev_63 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with the US interstate train system is that it's run on freight train lines. Amtrak and Acela do not actually own the railway they use and they can only go a certain speed due to the grade of the track. I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. Anyways Amtrak are barely turning a profit as it is and while it would be great t…

I understand that Acalea still suffered an unusual problem. Because the tracks are connected to freight tracks, regulation required it to do well in a collision with a heavier freight train. This means that it has to be much heavier than true HSTs are in other countries. That's why it goes much slower than HSTs elsewhere and is still pricey.

High speed trains in other countries also share tracks with freight- even if there are no freight services on dedicated high-speed lines, they won't necessarily be on such lines all the time.

FRA crash safety standards are stricter because of Not Invented Here syndrome.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#309

Post by kansai-ben » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

They are using the same technique they use in Japan. In Tokyo, you get full signal strength, wherever you are (even in tunnels going underwater). That's because they have mobile antennas everywhere , including lining all the railway lines. I'll bet that their service ain't so cheap, though (I was roaming, when I was there, and that was definitely not cheap).

On the big carriers, it's about 3000 yen for 5GB monthly, which I don't find terribly expensive. You can definitely get cheaper plans on MVNOs, though.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#310

Post by Ichthypresbyter » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 10:17 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #71

lukeqsee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is also very small, as countries go. The longest train route is IC 1 (St. Gallen Geneva) going from the (almost) easternmost point to the westernmost point, and it’s 4 hours (it does have a few higher speed sections close to Bern). They simply don’t need much speed if they run frequent and reliable trains.

People in Europe travel between countries a lot. Luxembourg has high-speed rail with a single stop!

And the Swiss railways operate high-speed trains for those links with neighbouring countries- their routes to Milan, Venice and Frankfurt use trains capable of 250 km/h (ETR610 or Giruno), though they only travel at 200 km/h within Switzerland.