I m entertaining the idea that it is indeed expanding. Well not expanding , but that intelligence is regressing to the mean which is equally bad. People thrive under constraints and struggle. It's what makes games fun to play. Maybe the ease of modern life makes humans complacent. I mean i can't explain why i see so many people struggle when they use an old computer program which used to be commonplace in its day/ ob…
> Where are the kolmogorovs, the von neumanns, ... Communicating via conference and paper, not via popular media. (As DEK says, their task is to get to the bottom of things, not keep on top of them.) IOW, where they've always been. The Glass Bead Game (1943) calls the twentieth century the Age of the Feuilleton as snark on that genre (the dead tree equivalent of blogging) as expression of idiocracy.
Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
301–307 of 307 posts
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why has one "felt was attacking you" and was "angry"? It is about arguments not personalities. Better be wrong than ignorant.
> Better be wrong than ignorant I think this is a hard mantra to put into practice sometimes. I definitely think many people who are not mentally ill sometimes do not abide by this mantra. Whilst I agree that it is better to be wrong to be ignorant, there are plenty of times where I hate being proven wrong. Sometimes that does get the better of me.
Person who is making obviously unbelievable arguments still is wrong but also dishonest. It is fine for fun or trolls but if it meant to be honest discussion it gains nothing but distrust.
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets…
I, for one, don't forget. I suspect most stories in the paper are bullshit. It isn't even because the paper is agenda-driven, it's because the journalist is either lazy or simply has no idea what he's writing about and mangles what he was told about it, or he asked the wrong questions, etc. Sort of like me being assigned to write an article about culinary arts :-) P.S. For more decent articles about airplanes, Aviati…
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#304I've engaged a few flat earthers to actually listen to their arguments and show them my own evidence that it's real (locating amateur radio satellites using data shared by people around the globe and demonstrating the doppler effect on them). The response strikes me as being indicative of mental illness. And I don't mean that as an insult - I mean that when confronted with that they're clearly irrational. And somethi…
This thinking is dangerous. You open the doors to labelling every opinion that isn't considered rational or part of the status quo to be a product of mental illness.
e.g I find those AI generated pictures of people that look like real photos to be mildly disturbing. It is clearly irrational, however I don't think people could claim I am mentally ill because of it.
Currently there is a push to make racism a mental illness. I see no evidence of that at all. I've spoken to some people that have gone on the "Iron March" and they aren't mentally ill (tbh they are just losers IMO but they are pretty harmless as most of them are NEETs living with their parents).
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Where are the kolmogorovs, the von neumanns, ... Communicating via conference and paper, not via popular media. (As DEK says, their task is to get to the bottom of things, not keep on top of them.) IOW, where they've always been. The Glass Bead Game (1943) calls the twentieth century the Age of the Feuilleton as snark on that genre (the dead tree equivalent of blogging) as expression of idiocracy.
yeah conferences still exist (eventhough they are more of a leisure activity in recent decades) , but the einsteins are not there
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would suggest that it's possible this need is subconscious It's definitely possible. I'm saying I'd be more inclined to believe the "need" in question is a social need, rather than bad media/"fake news" influence.
Bingo. A study I can't find after trying on Google took people with objectively wrong opinions and payed them for accuracy. Magically, people corrected their own opinions when they had a financial incentive to do so.
Interesting. I'd like to read that study, if you ever figure out which one it was.
Meanwhile, I wonder if this was a case of people figuring out what the testers wanted to hear, rather than actually altering the beliefs they held.
Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's disappointing how many examples in this thread are about lack of knowledge (or even just disagreeable beliefs). If intelligence is taken to be about manipulating the world around you then this is to some extent connected to the ability to obtain and verify knowledge but the ability to act upon that knowledge is far more important. True stupidity is almost by definition self-defeating. While I will admit that som…
I'd argue that good judgement of how reliable different pieces of information are is one of the most important aspects of intelligence. Some people are horribly bad at it while others are pretty good. In the long run this shapes what knowledge you have, so we can assume that someone who believe a lot of falsehoods isn't very smart. A smart individual can distill valuable information even when surrounded by propaganda…
I agree. In fact, while civilization has ameliorated many of the challenges to individual survival, that aspect has become much more acute.
> A smart individual can distill valuable information even when surrounded by propaganda while a dumb individual will still fall for a lot of propaganda even when surrounded by mostly correct information since they can't tell the difference.
I think that several things are going on here.
First, it has become increasingly difficult to distill and discern truth, in part because it has become more difficult to figure out what level of scrutiny any particular proposition merits.
Many of the proxies we have for trustworthiness are social and often co-opted by competing interests.
This also applies to the trustworthiness of scrutinizers.
I mean, anthropogenic global climate change is fairly well established at this point, at least in terms of mechanism and direction, but if you apply enough paranoia and squirt a bit you can discern a vested interest for doomsayers to minimize errors and collude in producing a false consensus.
The general public is more-or-less aware that enough money can either create a false consensus or cast 'reasonable' doubt at will (eg. globalization will lower unemployment and grow the economy, and smoking doesn't cause cancer).
So, given all that, a lot of people just fall back on tribalism (or more like "team-sport-ism") when allocating their limited time and attention in deciding who or what to trust vs. scrutinize, since no matter where you look you can find conflicts of interest (eg. the profit motive explains overprescription of OxiContin, so why shouldn't it explain pharma collusion to give people cancer and sideline cheap natural cures?).
It isn't that truth extraction is too hard per-se, it's the meta-task of choosing reliable sources as your starting point that has become impossible.