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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#301

Post by fastball »

bleepblorp wrote: post #209
paxys wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed with you 20 years ago, but China is now the second largest economy in the world, and on track to becoming the largest. Combine that with its gross domestic human rights violations, censorship, IP theft, and expansionist foreign policy (looking at the South China Sea, NE India, SE Asia, Africa etc.), and they aren't getting any sympathy from me.

The Chinese government isn't made up of nice people by any stretch but it's vitally important to understand their position so as to avoid escalation, possibly into armed conflict in future decades. They have every reason to view the survival of their tech sector as a vital economic security interest. Confiscating the value of their foreign tech assets without cause, or legitimate due process, will not make the Chines…

[flagged]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#302

Post by rswail »

hiimtroymclure wrote: post #54
voisin wrote: post #25

Is there any precedent for a president to do such a thing? I am completely astonished and dumbstruck that everyone is ok with this.

At least in my social circles, this has been one of the few things trump has done that both dems/conservatives agree with. Why would you be ok with CCP collecting info on US citizens and spreading misinformation to benefit a foreign regime?

Please demonstrate that TikTok actually "collect[s] info on US citizens" for the CCP or "spread[s] misinformation to benefit a foreign regime". Please also compare to Facebook/Cambridge Analytica or RT Now.

This is a mercantilist stupid response to something that in no way is a "national security" issue.

Sure, ban apps on government/military phones. That's truly about national security.

But 13 year olds doing dance videos, or kpop fans DDOSing Trump's rally ticketing (ie actually an email fishing activity) is not national security.

This is the same sort of isolationist bullshit that has the US DOS currently grading travel to New Zealand as "Level 2" because of their 23 cases of COVID.

Sure, China and the CCP are nasty and infringe their own and other citizens human rights. But these so-called national security EOs are more like "waaaah, but he did it first!" response from a child than the mature response of the supposed lead nation of the Western world.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#303

Post by mlindner »

joe_the_user wrote: post #234
khuey wrote: post #188

Seems pretty weak to be honest. Definitely not the "American Great Firewall" that some were predicting.

After 45 days, would anyone logging into a Wechat server in China be guilty of circumventing an embargo? Would they have to actually be sending money?

That would fail freedom of speech issues, so no.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#304

Post by Udik »

billfruit wrote: post #101
rtx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your views on IP theft by some companies there. Should that be considered first strike by China.

There is no evidence of IP theft being established against TikTok and ByteDance. Presumably they don't seem to have broken US laws as of now. Do countries take to banning Boeing, if they find problems with PepsiCo?.

> There is no evidence of IP theft being established against TikTok and ByteDance

Actually, the forced acquisition of TikTok by MS and its Instagram copy are instances of the US copying from the Chinese.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#305

Post by ideals »

euix wrote: post #106
thewarrior wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats how world wars break out.

I might get downvoted for this but I think it's a very real possibility. Withdraw the embassy from Beijing, recognize Taiwan and force a embargo of all Taiwanese/Korean and Japanese semiconductor supplies and components to Mainland China. Then sit back and let China then make the first move. Might not work, but at this point I wouldn't put it past somebody in the White House having already gamed it. There has never b…

China could also just wait 3 more months until the election and decide action after that. If the presidency changes they are able to deal with a more rational player.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#306

Post by tomerico »

danhak wrote: post #215

What a bizarre and interesting turn. I'd give a lot to be able to sit in on the meetings between TikTok and Microsoft right now. I wonder if FB will come over the top with a bid.

FB would have too much scrutiny and chances for the deals to fail to pass regulators. If they are really looking for a quick and guaranteed deal, they’d look elsewhere.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#307

Post by shripadk »

xvector wrote: post #130
paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

Those companies are free to operate in China if the comply with Chinese law. The US hasn’t issued any legal barriers for TikTok to jump over, they just straight out banned it.

> Those companies are free to operate in China if the comply with Chinese law.

Which will never happen. The Chinese know that Western companies would never want to comply with the Chinese law because the law was purposefully designed in such a way as to benefit the totalitarian regime. So they were forced to quit China. This is nothing but an indirect ban. This is very common actually.

For example: India imposed a 200% tariff on all Pakistani goods instead of banning them after the Pulwama Terror Attack [1]. Why not outright ban them? Because of global trade rules that prohibit taking such measures. So imposing a 200% tariff would effectively mean a ban only. No one in their right mind would import goods/services at 200% import duty. This is what Chinese were doing to US companies the past decade. Which is why US companies left China in the first place. Because staying around and doing business in China became untenable.

[1]: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/ind...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#308

Post by fastball »

gpm wrote: post #184
logicchains wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home Ah yes, I remember when the Chinese government killed off Vine to give TikTok a head start.

Was Vine available in China? It seems quite unlikely considering how little western social media is... so while I can't tell from a quick search I'm guessing that you really should remember that.

Ironically it seems like you and GC are on the same side (China didn't kill Vine), but you actually have unintentionally made an argument in favor of the opposite stance – maybe Vine would've done better if the CCP had allowed it to exist in China.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#309

Post by [deleted] »

thewarrior wrote: post #43

Some people here are wondering about the implications of this. What this means IMO is that all Chinese investments in SV need to be liquidated at fire sale prices in the next 45 days. Regardless of how people here feel about China this is a huge escalation. The US is inflicting huge losses on Chinese companies for no clear violation of US laws on their part. The pandoras box is now open. Do countries get to do this t…

[deleted]
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