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The TikTok War

stratechery.com

301–310 of 386 posts

Re: The TikTok War

#301
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there any reason to ban it other than “China?” Has anyone made an Indian TikTok clone, and if so has it got any traction? Seems like an obvious thing to do, if it was that popular.

Please read the article before commenting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

Re: The TikTok War

#302
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of facebook or snapchat or any of their major stakeholders being involved in mass (or any) industrial espionage. The same can't be said of the Chinese Government. That seems like a pretty distinct reason to be more OK with FB/Insta/Snap than TikTok.

TikTok = Chinese government? That is quite a leap there.

No, it really isn't even a little bit of a leap. Can't tell if you're trolling or severely misinformed.

>Following the shutdown, ByteDance announced that it would give preference to Chinese Communist Party members in its hiring and increase its censors from 6,000 to 10,000 employees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ByteDance

Re: The TikTok War

#303

Why is TikTok allowed to gain market share in Western countries? China banned Google, YouTube, Facebook, etc. while Chinese companies such as Baidu, Sina Weibo, WeChat were able to capture the entire Chinese market share. It seems that companies not adhering to censorship cannot expand into China, however, Chinese companies adhering to censorship (e.g. TikTok) are able to expand into Western countries. Isn't this ant…

I have no clue how The Great Firewall is not considered a straight up blockade.

Re: The TikTok War

#304
> the service censored #BlackLivesMatter and #GeorgeFloyd

I feel like this claim isn't well substantiated. TikTok claims it was a bug where 2 billion+ views were shown as 0 views. That specific number - the limit on a 32 bit signed integer, makes me think that it was a bug.

Re: The TikTok War

#305
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?

I've never heard of facebook or snapchat or any of their major stakeholders being involved in mass (or any) industrial espionage. The same can't be said of the Chinese Government. That seems like a pretty distinct reason to be more OK with FB/Insta/Snap than TikTok.

You never heard, obviously. Look up Niantic

Re: The TikTok War

#306
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain the threat model you're using here to assess Facebook vs TikTok? This sounds like just emotional language as I could call most of the modern web spyware and not be too far off the mark

It's less about threat model than willingness to use it. If the US government were using Facebook to censor and disseminate propaganda, we'd likely eventually hear about it. In contrast, the Chinese government is certainly using TikTok to censor and quite likely to disseminate propaganda. Critics of that policy will be imprisoned.

This article calls into question how closely you feel a sitting executive's campaign is to its government, but we have heard about it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-202...

Re: The TikTok War

#307
post #262

It is hardly just Tiktok policing content with an agenda. Twitter, Youtube, Reddit are particularly bad if you are conservative or have gender critical ideas. Reddit recently banned a ton of subreddits that are simply critical of the idea that men can literally become women (they say it's to stop hate, but they leave up violent porn subs and other subs that hate women). Even subreddits like PCOS - a very serious cond…

Reddit banned a bunch of hate subreddits. Full stop. I don't care what you think about trans men and women but this is not a case of people being overly sensitive. "Gender Critical" is the spiritual equivalent of "Race Realists" and their subreddits were nothing other than a safe space for them to express their overt hate. This was not a place "simply" for people with an opinion. You don't understand hate speech. Mis…

I modded a humble mid-sized subreddit, which was not an LGBT sub, but one where LGBT people occasionally asked LGBT-specific questions. My view of the situation initially was that conservative-minded peolle didn't really hate trans people and they were mostly frustrated by being forced to swallow an idea and being censored if they so much as asked an innocent question and that this is what was making them so upset. So I took a soft line.

It was a mistake out of touch with reality. The first thing I found is yes a fair amount of users really did just dislike transgender people. Second, a pattern I consistently saw was trans people making earnest honest sincere posts about real questions and EVERY thread somebody derailed the thread and made it into some culture wars BS. Upon getting their posts removed for derailing threads and starting shit they would proceed to start abusing the mods. Whereas the LGBT users would get upset over the former being tolerated yet were consistently polite, respectful, and their main way of protest was leaving the sub.

As time went on I realised that a lot of sentiment about "SJW bullies" was projection and that many anti-trans users were pathological in their harassment. That people don't really see how bad the problem is because the worst harassment gets removed and hidden from the regular userbase. The LGBT users were a minority largely trying to politely persuade the mods to make the sub better for people they cared about. Whereas the anti-trans users were entitled, attention-seeking, and self-victimizising. Sure there were some users with conservative views which were not like that. These people could be reasoned with if you simply explained the need for anti-harassment rules. Whereas taking a soft line ALWAYS meant people doing nothing wrong getting harassed for the benefit of mostly bad faith users.

Re: The TikTok War

#308

Because of the dominantly racist view prevailing in the US: if it is a Chinese company, it must somehow be bad, anti-democracy. If it comes from an American company, then it must be democratic and good (even when it does harm).

Racism may play a part, but it has way more to do with a legitimate concern: the Chinese government's eagerness to exercise control over our cultural output. If it were Russia, the response would be the same. If the Chinese government wants to censor media in their own country, fine. Obviously I don't support it on a personal level, but they can run their country how they see fit. But when a foreign entity tries to s…

By that argument we should block all non-national apps or services and create national networks instead, since you are assuming everybody is fine with the US as a country imposing their views and values to every country.

I can see Middle Eastern countries getting offended by several things we are used to. In short, anything that is not Western would be difficult in that sense, but even among Western democracies, there are taxation issues for these services and different views on privacy.

Re: The TikTok War

#310
post #289
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit banned a bunch of hate subreddits. Full stop. I don't care what you think about trans men and women but this is not a case of people being overly sensitive. "Gender Critical" is the spiritual equivalent of "Race Realists" and their subreddits were nothing other than a safe space for them to express their overt hate. This was not a place "simply" for people with an opinion. You don't understand hate speech. Mis…

For what it’s worth, I came across Gender Critical a couple of months back, as a confused neutral trying to understand what everybody was talking about. My impression was of a community uniting around a common anger at new trans-rights encroaching on hard-fought womens’ rights. I didn’t see much hate, and indeed many posters took pains to call out their support for trans-rights in principle . I think the anger was re…

Yep, that's pretty much what their community says on the tin. If that was what they actually were in practice I don't think it would have even been an issue. Sure, the trans community would have probably still disliked them, but like it's not like trans people are some big cultural powerhouse. There have been old-school well-respected academics that held similar opinions since the dawn of second-wave feminism. And don't get me wrong, there has always been plenty of infighting among feminists along this line -- many impassioned conferences, books, articles written about it. And it's from these people that GC takes their heritage and has used it for years to "legitimize" their hate. It's what allowed them to survive online as long as they did because they knew how to fly just under the radar.

Then, like a lot of subreddits, GC got bigger and the new influx of people weren't uhh... so subtle and more and more of the content became insulting, shaming, and "cringe" directed at specific trans people.

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