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China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

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Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#301

Post by bb2018 »

Klinky wrote: post #233
bb2018 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the lettuce killed people and then everyone who interacted with the people who at the lettuce also got sick and the economy had to be shut down the United States would strictly ban selling lettuce immediately. If China can enforce the largest lockdown ever and enforce a one-child policy for decades, they can easily ban live animals at markets.

A) COVID-19 doesn't kill everyone it comes in contact with. Depending on where you live, more people in the last 3 months may have become seriously ill from a food-borne illness than from COVID-19. B)Food-borne illness actually does kill around 150,000 per year worldwide. It is a serious concern, and difficult to track/contain. There are also concerns around regulations being too lax, not enough inspectors, and livin…

A) Saying the "last three months" is intellectually disingenuous because the virus hadn't even been introduced to most states three months ago. I'm sure in some areas more people have died in the last three months from ski accidents but that is irrelevant. Name one state where you honestly believe the next three months will have comparable cases of food-borne deaths to Covid-19 deaths.

B) I'm not disagreeing with you.

C) People should not be at an in-person Easter Sunday. I realize a percentage of churches decided to not close. That being said, wanting to eat bats is not comparable to wanting to practice religion.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#302

Post by Izkata »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #69
alderz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be thinking of this one https://img-prod.tgcom24.mediaset.it/images/2020/02/16/11472...

Yes that is it, thank you! I like that it clears things up like - > According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market. I've worked in a lab and Occam's razor for me says the lab that is 280 meters away and studied bat viruses is a lot more plausible than it originating in a wet market. People make stupid…

> I've worked in a lab and Occam's razor for me says the lab that is 280 meters away

Yeeaah, about that... I looked more myself last time when I mentioned this and couldn't find the reference I originally saw (it was more than a month before my comment a month ago), instead found this:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/%E6%96%B0%E4%B8%96%E7%BA%A...

https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=auto...

According to Google Maps and Translate, the pin in the image in that PDF that says "Wuhan Center for Disease Control & Prevention" is actually on a building labeled "New Century Home Appliances Collection and Disposal Station".

14-15km appears to be the actual distance from the market to the lab: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wuhan+South+China+Seafood+Wh...

There is one building 4km away called the Wuhan CDC&P, but looking at the surrounding buildings that appears to be an office, not a lab: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wuhan+South+China+Seafood+Wh...

IMO despite the faked image, the same city is still suspicious, especially with stories like this coming out now: https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-sars-virus-and-flu-found-in...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#303

Post by shadowbn123 »

sergiotapia wrote: post #103
Razengan wrote: post #90

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

Take a look at reddit to see how legions of paid government actors are actively shaping the discussion on mainstream platforms.

hey sergiotapioca

talk is cheap, be the man you're claiming to be please, go out, mingle, get close to lots of your relatives. and remember, the government are telling you to wash your hands, so don't do that. show them how you're not gonna take any crap from the elites.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#304

Post by andromeduck »

Klinky wrote: post #251
jotakami wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times do we need to repeat this... everyone assumes that “came from a lab” means “engineered bioweapon”. No! Also, people quickly forget that humans have been selectively evolving plants and animals for thousands of years without touching the actual genomes.

How did it come from a lab? I've heard "workers got sprayed with blood and infected", "someone screwed up"(vague), "mishandled lab waste". Just saying it "came from a lab", makes it sound man made. If you don't want misunderstandings, you need spell it out and make it absolutely clear. It doesn't even sound like there is a clear narrative about how it "escaped from the lab", just a lot of rumors. Rumors about a rumor…

You get it from a bat the same way you get it from another person you touch the bat and touch your face or you clean the cage drop get . You dump out the litter box/tray and huff some particles. You draw a blood sample and a drop of it gets on your visor/goggles. You take it off late and touch your face. It's nothing sexy.

Note that that the Wuhan CDC, the lab ~300m from the market, the lab that was experimenting on bats, is not the BSL4 Wuhan Institute of Virology miles away from the seafood market, that everyone loves taking about. It's probably a level 2 or 3 lab.

Escape from a lab doesn't imply man made any more than tiger escaped from zoo implies that the tiger was born there. SARS escaped from BSL3 labs on China on multiple occasions, that doesn't imply that SARS was man made.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#305

Post by Razengan »

dntbnmpls wrote: post #171
Razengan wrote: post #90

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

> Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track It's been my experience that everyone who prefaces their comment with statements like this usually are lying. "I'm not X, but ... " > along with a streak of random US-critical posts ("What is the worst thing the US government has done?") being massively updated on Reddit Anyone can go on reddit and see the very opposite. This is what I don't understand about propagandists,…

> As for japan, lets see some examples.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan+and+Taiwan+flags+remov...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#306

Post by andromeduck »

throwanem wrote: post #175
andromeduck wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We absolutely do know where it started. Prehaps not precisely in physical space but that 13 of the first 41 cases had no connection to the seafood market is very strong evidence that whatever the source may be, it was socially and physically proximate to the market just like the lab but not likely the market itself. To compare this to Iraq is absolutely preposterous and fallacious. The two have absolutely nothing in…

Do you not think people come from out of town, sometimes from quite far out of town, to sell food at a city market? That's how they work here in Baltimore, and anyone who's ever been to Lexington Market, or even seen a picture of what the crowds are like there (1), can have no trouble imagining how effective a transmission vector it would be for any contagious pathogen hitching a ride in an out-of-town vendor there.…

This market is not known to have sold bats and by all accounts it did not. Consuming bats is a southern thing not a central thing.

Your theory also doesn't along with the evidence, that the first known cases had a significant population with no known connection to the market, 27 with connection, 14 without; and that other than the market there are no other obvious connections. If it were just some hawker you'd expect a much stronger connection to the market. And over a longer period.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#307

Post by rpiguy »

Klinky wrote: post #257
rpiguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was researching bat Corona viruses? The outbreak started at a market on the doorstep of her lab? Her name is on several papers on bat Corona virus. Just pointing out that Wuhan was studying viruses exactly like the one tearing through the world right now, lol.

This kind of witch-hunt logic belongs in the dark ages. Persecuting potential experts on the situation based on vague assumptions and rumors. Awful.

No one is being persecuted. It is correct to suspect.

In a murder investigation the police start with those closest related to the victim. If money is missing from a bank vault you start your investigation looking at all those who had access.

When a pandemic starts outside of a lab studying the same kind of virus tearing through the world you start with the lab.

We will likely never know for sure, but it is absolutely reasonable to suspect.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#308

Post by throwanem »

andromeduck wrote: post #306
throwanem wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not think people come from out of town, sometimes from quite far out of town, to sell food at a city market? That's how they work here in Baltimore, and anyone who's ever been to Lexington Market, or even seen a picture of what the crowds are like there (1), can have no trouble imagining how effective a transmission vector it would be for any contagious pathogen hitching a ride in an out-of-town vendor there.…

This market is not known to have sold bats and by all accounts it did not. Consuming bats is a southern thing not a central thing. Your theory also doesn't along with the evidence, that the first known cases had a significant population with no known connection to the market, 27 with connection, 14 without; and that other than the market there are no other obvious connections. If it were just some hawker you'd expect…

I had a theory around guano used for fertilizer acting as a fomite, but found some research an hour ago that suggests SARS doesn't remain viable via that route, so SARS-CoV-2 probably doesn't either.

Do we know that bats are the only (or only likely) nonhuman host? Was there a significant population of cases with a known connection to the lab?

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#309

Post by nojvek »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #300

This is basically the end game for China. Either they buy off everything while their economy is still running, or they face isolation. They fd us all way too hard this time

People want cheap goods. They don't care if their Nike shoes come from a slaveshop, just like we don't really give much thought that most of the milk we drink come from cows in very miserable conditions.

It's business as usual for China. As long as they keep on making those affordable goods, other countries will consume.

If Apple moves off their entire production from China to US, and still is competitive, then I'll be a believer.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#310

Post by cameldrv »

andromeduck wrote: post #2

Huge change of tone from 2 months ago, ok m guessing it's because because they fear that the lab accident theory will gain more traction academically or they fear people will reveal the scale of the damage to the public vs the clearly fabricated stats we have now. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/01/30/asia-pacific/sc... www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/all-signs-point-to-china/ https://www.dailymail.co.…

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-t...
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