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Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

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301–310 of 499 posts

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#301

Dumb question. Why can't they just turn off all stock markets for a month?

The same reason why not testing for the virus doesn't stop its spread. Markets can spread psychological panic very quickly, but a lot of the short term behavior here is based on very short term bets about what other people are going to do on average. Give the market a month to integrate some information that is relevant over slightly longer timescales and we'll see where it thinks we are.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#302
post #300

This is the moment that management cuts staff and pushes survivors to work harder than ever with no more than the threat of the axe. Realizing productivity gains from job insecurity is unethical, so it only gets used under the illusion that it is the only way for the employer to survive. The reality is that the employer could have operated like this all along but couldn't drop the axe without looking like a butcher u…

Seriously?! "Quitting for new work" when in a week or so no companies will even be doing in-person interviews? This sounds just insane to me. "Quitting before you find a job" is bad advice even in very good economy.

The boat on in person interviews sailed a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#303
post #118

To put it into perspective, the last time the market behaved like (multiple drops of this magnitude) this was 90 years ago, in 1929, and it was at the start of the Great Depression. Today was the second largest percentage drop for US Markets in history. Now is not a good time to sell your stock holdings (at least not anymore). This smells of a panic right now. I think a severe recession is all but guaranteed at this…

Maybe, but why don't you think the markets will bounce back once we're on the other side of this? Have underlying fundamentals changed longer term? South Korea, China, Singapore are encouraging and seeing a return back to (almost) normal life. Granted, we're not dealing with this nearly as effectively and there may be a 2nd wave to come. But at this point they seem to make the case for optimism.

This is probably a wave of margin calls forcing a lot of funds to liquidate. This contraction will reduce the money supply and scare this generation of investors.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#304
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The S&P500, the best general index, closed at 2386 today. It's risen over 300% since the last crash, the GFC in 2007. It's been an extraordinarily lengthy bull run, and well overdue fo a crash. Before the GFC the index was 1550, and after it was ~760 (~50% drop) At the peak of the dotcom boom it was generally under 1500. In 2002 after that crash it was 800. (45% drop) The recent peak was ~3380. A 50% drop is ~1700, w…

The thing with dotcom and GFC is that they both revealed fundamental problems in the marketplace. Dotcom was over-hype around internet startups, GFC was the financial house of cards around subprime mortgages. There was no "going back to the way things were" in those cases. In this case, on the other hand, the primary mechanism is "people can't work/aren't going out and buying things". That's absolutely going to "go b…

Are you sure COVID-19 didn't partially prick a systemic issue that was hard to see on the rise (as many also missed the housing crisis before the fall)? For example, the amount the stock rise was attributed to stock buybacks in an unsustainable manner caused by late stage government policies (tax cuts, low rates). There has been some pretty extreme levels of corporate debt that correlates with this.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#305
post #118

To put it into perspective, the last time the market behaved like (multiple drops of this magnitude) this was 90 years ago, in 1929, and it was at the start of the Great Depression. Today was the second largest percentage drop for US Markets in history. Now is not a good time to sell your stock holdings (at least not anymore). This smells of a panic right now. I think a severe recession is all but guaranteed at this…

Maybe, but why don't you think the markets will bounce back once we're on the other side of this? Have underlying fundamentals changed longer term? South Korea, China, Singapore are encouraging and seeing a return back to (almost) normal life. Granted, we're not dealing with this nearly as effectively and there may be a 2nd wave to come. But at this point they seem to make the case for optimism.

Looking at Europe (but the US seems to be taking the same direction). All restaurants, shops, entertainment, tourist industry are closing, and will remain closed for several months. Large businesses will fire people (see airlines now), small businesses will go bust.

If these health policies undershoot their targets in term of number of people infected, then we may have to deal with this virus again next fall/winter, so add a few more months of similar pain.

I just don't see how this will not have lasting effects. Even in Dec 2008, at the very worst of the crisis, you had deep discounts in shops, but at least you could consume. But here all malls will be basically closed.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but that's completely wrong; the marketing moving is a reality. The issue is prediction - will the market move and in which way??

Incorrect, the market moves on expectation, anyone that has traded the market knows this. If expectations are terrible, the market will tumble, it doesn't matter what is happening right now.

I am only talking about one thing - the market going up or down. That’s the entire reality. Expectations contribute to that, making them part of reality.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#308

To put it into perspective, the last time the market behaved like (multiple drops of this magnitude) this was 90 years ago, in 1929, and it was at the start of the Great Depression. Today was the second largest percentage drop for US Markets in history. Now is not a good time to sell your stock holdings (at least not anymore). This smells of a panic right now. I think a severe recession is all but guaranteed at this…

> This smells of a panic right now.

It is a panic, but its justifiable to panic over the entire economy being shut down for an undetermined amount of time. No person on earth can say when this will end, given what we currently know about the virus, whether its possible to become reinfected, and how effective our strategies will be.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#309

To put it into perspective, the last time the market behaved like (multiple drops of this magnitude) this was 90 years ago, in 1929, and it was at the start of the Great Depression. Today was the second largest percentage drop for US Markets in history. Now is not a good time to sell your stock holdings (at least not anymore). This smells of a panic right now. I think a severe recession is all but guaranteed at this…

I have never thought about all-out selling during this. In fact I'm buying more with each dip. I feel that securities are a bargain right now. With select selling I'll also be taking advantage of tax loss harvesting for years to come.

Be weary of catching falling knives.

I've made that mistake before.

Re: Dow Falls 2997 points worst drop since 1987 crash

#310
post #298
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person described in that Vox article - upper respiratory symptoms, no direct contact with someone with confirmed Covid-19 - wouldn't meet the criteria for testing anywhere that I know of off-hand. Certainly not in the UK or Australia, probably not in South Korea (though they allow people who don't qualify to buy testing out of pocket), not in a whole bunch of EU states, and Italy has much bigger things to worry a…

You can't have contact with someone with a confirmed case of Covid-19 if nobody is being tested for Covid-19.

The community spread by this point has hit the entire US surely. They can't track every single confirmed person location-by-location because it's been far too long.
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