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Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

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Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#301

Post by jacobush »

maayank wrote: post #288
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory that WSB are so bad at trading that they actually do manipulate stocks due to messing up every automated trading platform that assumes there'd be some logic to the trades being made. Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen. This appeared to happen…

> Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen. The trading system and its operators deserve whatever fate results from such a decision.

In Sweden someone was convicted for triggering such bots to do stupid things. Morale: if you are big player, you file a lawsuit. If you are a small player, you get convicted.

If your bots do "stupid things".

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#302

Post by H8crilA »

EpicEng wrote: post #235
H8crilA wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't looked at the numbers. There's so much option trading that it affects the entire market a lot: https://themarketear.com/posts/cqKGhoO98L/image/0 Pair that with poor price discovery: few actively managed funds; shit-ton of indexation (both explicit and closet). We may, and I repeat - may , see some interesting action here. Legends like Michale Burry or David Einhorn often complain about price discovery. Wh…

>You haven't looked at the numbers. There's so much option trading that it affects the entire market a lot The question is "what effect does have?", not "does option trading effect the market?"

That I cannot really tell you - I don't know.

The standard story is about delta hedging (i.e. the buyers are speculators that don't delta hedge, but the sellers do hedge, introducing a lot of gamma into the market, thereby amplifying moves).

My larger point is that in this state of the market one really has to wonder who's ultimately setting the prices.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#303

Post by marvin »

jacobush wrote: post #301
maayank wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen. The trading system and its operators deserve whatever fate results from such a decision.

In Sweden someone was convicted for triggering such bots to do stupid things. Morale: if you are big player, you file a lawsuit. If you are a small player, you get convicted. If your bots do "stupid things".

Huh. In Norway they were acquitted. Same story. Seems like a significant difference in the law tradition.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#304

Post by dmos62 »

vikramkr wrote: post #204
totalZero wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of the best options traders in the world. Options dealers don't necessarily sell options. They can also buy them. And "writing" an option means to sell it, so "wrote the contract and sold it" is redundant. Options dealers are not automatically short all of the contracts that they sell. They may already have a long position in that option contract, in which case their sale is a closing sale. Also, I think you…

A comment I'm sure you expected you'd get on this forum: you're gonna have to elaborate a bit on/defend a bit that opening line there about being one of the best options traders in the world.

I enjoy the contrast with nickname:

> totalzero: i am the best.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#305

Post by Scirra_Tom »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #29
safog wrote: post #23

Come on man, there's no where near enough volume there to move anything but the most low volume of stocks. All they trade in is meme stocks like TSLA, NFLX, MSFT, AAPL etc., and a few 100k on calls here or there won't budge the price in the slightest. On top of that, it's not even a P&D group, people there are just trading against each other, you have both bears and bulls and thetas. There's never been a concerted ef…

I have a theory that WSB are so bad at trading that they actually do manipulate stocks due to messing up every automated trading platform that assumes there'd be some logic to the trades being made. Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen. This appeared to happen…

> Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen.

Not an expert but I'd be surprised if one trade like that triggered anything, could easily be a hedge.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#306

Post by pjc50 »

missosoup wrote: post #138
Loughla wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess, based on what I know about diversity and inclusion. It's the fact that people are called retards, autists, and homophobic slurs. To some it's about "having thick skin". To others it's about normalizing "hate speech". It really depends on what your life experience is to determine which camp you fall in. If you've been on the receiving end of hate speech or discrimination, you tend to be in the seco…

> If you've been on the receiving end of hate speech or discrimination, you tend to be in the second camp. If you've lived a relatively privileged life in terms of 'fitting in' to the world around you, you tend to think people just need to grow thicker skin. As someone who fell into category 1 for most of my childhood, I think you have the labels reversed. I think it takes a tremendously sheltered privileged life to…

The people campaigning against the use of those words are usually from the category affected, plus a few thought leaders outside the category who say "maybe we shouldn't be so nasty towards the outsiders". It's the ones outside the category who everyone attacks as "politically correct", because of the unthinkableness of advocating for something that doesn't personally benefit them. The ones inside the denigrated category are usually invisible.

And that's why you do see people campaigning against hate speech outside of the West and Europe - but much more quietly and less visibly, partly because they're not amplified and partly because (as you've noticed) it's genuinely dangerous for them to do so.

There's a Pride in Uganda. It's illegal. You won't find people telling you not to use "f-g" there, because they don't have the power to say so safely.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#307

Post by nabla9 »

H8crilA wrote: post #125
safog wrote: post #23

Come on man, there's no where near enough volume there to move anything but the most low volume of stocks. All they trade in is meme stocks like TSLA, NFLX, MSFT, AAPL etc., and a few 100k on calls here or there won't budge the price in the slightest. On top of that, it's not even a P&D group, people there are just trading against each other, you have both bears and bulls and thetas. There's never been a concerted ef…

You haven't looked at the numbers. There's so much option trading that it affects the entire market a lot: https://themarketear.com/posts/cqKGhoO98L/image/0 Pair that with poor price discovery: few actively managed funds; shit-ton of indexation (both explicit and closet). We may, and I repeat - may , see some interesting action here. Legends like Michale Burry or David Einhorn often complain about price discovery. Wh…

Retail investors are are doing so small portion of option trading that it has no effect.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#308

Post by lorenzfx »

jacobush wrote: post #301
maayank wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone's just bought a $1000 call option on a stock that's currently $400? Automated trading systems will probably raise alerts on that stock since someone must know something for that to happen. The trading system and its operators deserve whatever fate results from such a decision.

In Sweden someone was convicted for triggering such bots to do stupid things. Morale: if you are big player, you file a lawsuit. If you are a small player, you get convicted. If your bots do "stupid things".

Do you have more details?

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#309

Post by austhrow743 »

OJFord wrote: post #141

Matt Levine's take: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2020-02-26/money-... I'd really recommend subscribing (free, email, don't think there's RSS) if you don't already (I got the recommendation on HN). He's prolific though, rarely a day without an email, and often two or three - it wasn't long before I couldn't keep up; I just skim and read more thoroughly those that grab my attention now.

Pretty sure he does one per weekday unless he's off work. Don't recall ever receiving multiple in the one day.

Re: Reddit’s profane, greedy traders are shaking up the stock market

#310

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #306
missosoup wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've been on the receiving end of hate speech or discrimination, you tend to be in the second camp. If you've lived a relatively privileged life in terms of 'fitting in' to the world around you, you tend to think people just need to grow thicker skin. As someone who fell into category 1 for most of my childhood, I think you have the labels reversed. I think it takes a tremendously sheltered privileged life to…

The people campaigning against the use of those words are usually from the category affected, plus a few thought leaders outside the category who say "maybe we shouldn't be so nasty towards the outsiders". It's the ones outside the category who everyone attacks as "politically correct", because of the unthinkableness of advocating for something that doesn't personally benefit them. The ones inside the denigrated cate…

[deleted]
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