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Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

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Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#301

Post by goles »

sgustard wrote: post #216
freehunter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Hemorrhaging” is a pretty common way to describe an exodus of people or money. It’s a common metaphor that’s also used in “stop the bleeding” or the similar “stem the tide”. Business is full of otherwise wildly inappropriate phrases, like “drink the kool-aid” in reference to the mass suicide of nearly 1000 people in the Jonestown cult. I have no idea how that’s considered an appropriate phrase for any situation but…

The issue with the word is that implies something that if left unchecked will cause disaster. So 100k people per year have left, and yet "California’s population still grew by about 2 million over this period". I really don't see the problem.

But in areas that do have negative growth, more people leave the tax base gets lower, the government has less funding to address issues that cause people to leave, move people leave, etc.

No?

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#302

Post by nradov »

smsm42 wrote: post #178
dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Sonoma County, CA here. We've lost more people from our county than any other in the state between 2017-2018 [1], and it is only continuing. From the few of these people I have spoken with - anecdotally: - None left because of the fire risk, specifically. [though some obviously did - 2] - Most left because of the cost of living: $600k avg home price. - Some also left because of political and human environment: We hav…

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

California has largely become a single party state. I'm not trying to start an argument between Democrats and Republicans here, but we can clearly see a pattern everywhere in the world. Once single party rule is institutionalized the politicians are no longer accountable to voter interests.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#303

Post by d1zzy »

newfangle wrote: post #247
untog wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side: high taxes means access to things like public transportation, meaning that you don't need to own and maintain a car. And crime rates in NYC, at least, are at absolute historic lows. The firearms part of your statement really makes no sense at all. Some other pluses: a huge concentration of culture, entertainment, dining. Regional transportation hubs to travel to other cities is relatively quick.

This is hilarious, yeah in SF the 55 percent taxes i pay really do provide me great public transportation

lol what? 55% taxes?

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#304

Post by malandrew »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #288
GhettoChild wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

moving away with a million dollar check in your pocket sounds so terrible.....

Moving where? Why should people leave their homes that they built and paid for ..Human beings like their community and neighborhood where they have a support system. When you know your neighbour is just a phone call away next door, you don’t have to rely on doctors or nurses or ambulances or fire departments. As you get older, community is a great source of comfort and moral support. People won’t realize this until t…

> Human beings like their community

What community? Most members of someone's community in SF that didn't buy early enough have been priced out of the city.

The native San Franciscan is a rarity precisely because of bad policy like Prop 13.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#305

Post by jvanderbot »

nradov wrote: post #302
smsm42 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

California has largely become a single party state. I'm not trying to start an argument between Democrats and Republicans here, but we can clearly see a pattern everywhere in the world. Once single party rule is institutionalized the politicians are no longer accountable to voter interests.

California allows two candidates from the same party to run against eachother. Do other states not?

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#306

Post by d1zzy »

xyzzyz wrote: post #259
d1zzy wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as no Prop 13 gets voted in it should be much better than California. Everyone complaining about policies in California make it sound like Texas is perfect. I'm pretty sure it could use a lot of improvements on its policies. There are some large factors that have had a disproportionate effect on the housing problems California faces and one of those is Prop 13 so it is much better to focus on avoiding repeati…

Prop 13 does produce some distortion in the market, but much bigger problem is the sheer inability to build anything. If California had similar zoning and building rules as Texas, Prop 13 would not really be relevant, since houses would not be appreciating in value fast enough for Prop 13 to make any difference.

Agreed but one of the major reasons why residents are opposed to building/zoning residential IS a natural result of Prop 13. It's impressive how much of the past/current problems California is facing can be traced back to Prop 13.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#307

Post by Spooky23 »

m_ke wrote: post #150
jefftk wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything in your link about NYC putting up housing at an insane rate, and my understanding had been that NYC housing growth was at historically low levels?

Here's a link with some more data https://streeteasy.com/blog/nycs-unsold-condos/ . The rezoning and redevelopment of the queens and brooklyn waterfronts brought a ton of new high rise condos with it. I live in northern brooklyn and there's a new condo building being built on almost every block. At the same time there's more vacant storefronts than I've ever seen and the only businesses getting by are coffee shops, h…

The storefronts are only there because of significant state tax credits for including them.

Like all things real estate, there’s some other tax angle where the owners make more money demanding commercial rents above what the market can afford than actually renting it. They probably securitize the losses somehow.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#308

Post by jvanderbot »

34679 wrote: post #281
dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Sonoma County, CA here. We've lost more people from our county than any other in the state between 2017-2018 [1], and it is only continuing. From the few of these people I have spoken with - anecdotally: - None left because of the fire risk, specifically. [though some obviously did - 2] - Most left because of the cost of living: $600k avg home price. - Some also left because of political and human environment: We hav…

Former Sonoma County resident from 2009-2017 here. Three break-ins in my last year and a half caused my exodus. A new skate park had been built across the street that included bathrooms and a bus stop. A homeless camp immediately sprang up in the woods behind it, and I started getting robbed. That combined with the fact that the garden I had was 100% legal locally until the state legalized recreational cannabis and t…

Edit: I misunderstood.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#309

Post by narrator »

dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Sonoma County, CA here. We've lost more people from our county than any other in the state between 2017-2018 [1], and it is only continuing. From the few of these people I have spoken with - anecdotally: - None left because of the fire risk, specifically. [though some obviously did - 2] - Most left because of the cost of living: $600k avg home price. - Some also left because of political and human environment: We hav…

Forcing homeless services into an area and the subsequent homeless people entering your neighborhood is the politically correct 21st century version of blockbusting[1]. I suspect this is probably why Amazon, not exactly a friend of poor people, is putting homeless shelters in their offices, so they can lower the surrounding real estate prices and more easily expand[2].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting

[2]https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-headquarters-homeless...

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#310

Post by tmh79 »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #279
jedberg wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being priced out of one's home is a red herring that the low tax zealots want you to believe to keep prop 13 in place. Somehow in the 49 other states that don't have Prop 13, people aren't priced out of their homes from taxes. There are other options. There are home equity lines, reverse mortgages, or even freezing tax payments and adding them as liens on the property at time of transfer. But even if you're worried a…

Property taxes are paid on the sale price. It is not a punitive tax to fund new entrants. An example: Consider a 75 year old senior couple on fixed retirement income living in their fully paid 40 year old home. They paid the 300k mortgage and the house is worth 1 million.They raised their kids who attended public schools for 12 years each. Property taxes are used for public school education. 45% of California budget…

Senior citizens in the other 49 states are doing just fine.

There are problems with increasing property taxes on elderly folks on fixed incomes, the solution isn't to say "you never own any tax on the appreciated value" the solution is to say "you can pay the tax on the appreciated value when you sell your home" which is an insane liberal tax and spend policy practiced in the hippie haven of the... state of Texas.

Additionally, the lions gain of the benefits of prop 13 don't accumulate to the working class elderly living in appreciated homes, it goes to giant corporations like Walt Disney (yes, Disney Land is protected by prop 13), golf courses, extremely wealthy property investors, and the heirs of people who have owned nice homes and then died who then bequeath both their house AND their insane tax rate on to their children.

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