Is child rearing and changing gender norms a factor here?
Education and Men without Work
301–310 of 342 posts
Re: Education and Men without Work
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day Is that actually the case? The article takes issue with the narrative that supply and demand are involved ... but I don't think this article proves this idea that folks are enjoying government benefits and that results in them not working. The article certainly mentions it, but is pretty short on evide…
Disability is a federal benefit (not state) and according to the article a whopping 2/3 of these men are on at least 1 federal disability benefit. Furthermore, 1/2 of the men take prescription pain medication daily. The government benefits certainly make it easier to not work, but the article does pain to say that correlation is not causation - it is a multi-factor phenomenon. Government benefits may enable the behav…
In Germany, you can receive partial disability benefits ("Erwerbsminderungsrente"); that is, you might be evaluated as being capable of 3-6 hours of work per day, and thus receive only a portion of what would have been your full disability payment. Also, it's accepted (even hoped) that you might become fully fit again.
https://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/DRV/EN/Leistungen... (under "Invalidity pension")
More details in German: https://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/DRV/DE/Rente/Allg...
Re: Education and Men without Work
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Men generally have the biological need to go do and wander and discover things. I don't know whether it's hormones or what. Debate all you like elsewhere (I'm not trying to debate that point here). I'd drop biological here. Because it might just as well be a cultural or social cause. The important observation is that men have the need to have adventures and women don't. The rest of your argument stands without need…
That the trend exists across cultures suggests that culture might only be part of it. Not 100% due to biology, to be sure, but intuitively it makes sense that it's a significant drive simply based on how humans evolved and what gender roles existed because of our biology (men hunting and gathering, women raising children).
That's a debate we could have, though I don't particularly care for it.
My point is that the entire argument stands without making this assertion, so why not leave it out.
Re: Education and Men without Work
#304I've only skimmed the article, but nowhere does it seem to compare men to the overall population. As it stands, these distressing trends could hold for everyone, which makes the focus on men needless. Did I miss something here? Does anyone know whether these trends are unique to men? Because if (and that is a big if) this is not unique to men, that would be some horrible cherry picking / manipulative statistics. Rega…
I think the article takes as a given that men's labour participation is tanking, while women's isn't. For most of the audience, this will be common knowledge. Here is a graph about female participation: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.NE.ZS?lo...
But do we see the same disparity between immigration and marital status for women?
The issue raised here isn't (I think) that labour participation is shifting away from men. It's that _men_ have some specific issues. If those same issues are present in women, we need to have a different discussion.
Re: Education and Men without Work
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The difference now is that automation is rendering the hill insurmountable. I would say "the difference now is that the failing educational system is rendering the hill insurmountable." Automation is just tools. Reasonably able people can learn to use tools. But they need the means to do so affordably and effectively. Our system of education, however, is largely stuck two generations back and not up to the task of p…
the difference now is that the failing educational system is rendering the hill insurmountable. As an aspiring educator, it's becoming increasingly obvious to me that society expects teachers to be miracle-workers, to motivate children so they study really hard and get into a good college. Yet we don't expect the same from parents. Parents are spending less and less time with their kids, while the demands for educati…
You're right that abdication of responsibility by parents is the root cause of all of this. There's no criminal punishment for destroying your child's life as long as you don't use outright violence.
But if parents took responsibility, the first thing that'd go is 80%+ of college enrollments and all one-size-fits-all schooling beyond elementary school.
Re: Education and Men without Work
#306The article is long on detail and short on suggestions (which is understandable). However, the suggestions it does make are not obviously going to work. The men illustrated in the article do not seem incapable of work, but rather disinterested. Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. Most people (but esp…
Omg. Your message would have been written with "woman" instead of "man" youd would get legitimately drilled..
Re: Education and Men without Work
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the two causes listed in the article are actually the causes. I think both are yet another symptom of an underlying problem. I would argue that men doing worse in schooling is likely another symptom of the same issue. I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Not to society nor to anyone else. This leads to a situation where they will simply sacrific…
The dating dynamic changed too. As a man, you will be able to date if you are in the top 20% on height and general attractiveness. It wasn't always like that. In the recent past, you could have a girlfriend if you were average good looking and if you showed your worth. Good grades, good work prospects, etc. as long as you committed to a woman. That doesn't seem to work any more.
You haven’t tried hard enough. You give women little credit in their ability to sift through useless traits. In fact, most optimize this skill, and are patient. It is important not to delay. The best mates are gone more quickly.
Re: Education and Men without Work
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also can't understand it, life is fun and video games get boring pretty quickly. But that's probably why I am not staying at home playing video games all day.
Life usually isn’t fun if you are hideous or stupid.
It probably doesn't help that women find 80% of men as ugly.
Re: Education and Men without Work
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the two causes listed in the article are actually the causes. I think both are yet another symptom of an underlying problem. I would argue that men doing worse in schooling is likely another symptom of the same issue. I think that the heart of the issue is that more men nowadays feel that they just don't matter. Not to society nor to anyone else. This leads to a situation where they will simply sacrific…
What jobs still benefit from a man's physical strength anymore? Most things that need serious brawn use 'hydraulic muscles'? Soon women won't even ask us to twist the lid off jars anymore, there will be an iRobot for that. Where are men needed these days? We automated away manliness. It's worth less these days. The least valued men are now valued even less. Frankly, I think these disaffected men should go back to the…
How do you suppose these disaffected men will get the capital to afford land, supplies, tools, and everything else needed to survive in the countryside?
Re: Education and Men without Work
#310The article is long on detail and short on suggestions (which is understandable). However, the suggestions it does make are not obviously going to work. The men illustrated in the article do not seem incapable of work, but rather disinterested. Vocational training isn't going to fix the fact that the government benefits the article cited allows the men to stay at home playing video games all day. Most people (but esp…
I'd rather the losers of society stay in their house, high and playing video games, rather than trying to impress women and provide a family legacy by engaging in gangster behavior to get money. Also, if society is so plentiful that it can handle a certain percentage of people doing nothing but living for pleasure, why not let them? Work is not valuable except for its product, and if its product is not needed, the wo…
I'd agree with you if we reached peak development and unemployment was high.
But there are people dying of hunger in the world, disseases that require funds to find a cure, infrastructure to be payed for and so on.
So if you pay your taxes, even if you consider your work "meaningless", your tax money, if spent well, is not meaningless.
Sure it's better than them joining crime, but its a sad state of affairs and not exactly optimal.
Some societies have been plentiful enough for a couple hundreds years to afford people not working/not net contributing, but those people would still be a burden, at least to missed development.