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Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

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Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is particularly unreasonable to want to surround yourself with individuals who think grass lawns, kept cut to a uniform length between 4" and 8", are a good idea, and a worthy goal for landscaping. That's a 1946 ideal. In the same way that it was a 1946 ideal to build a residential-only neighborhood away from the big city, with racist covenants and redlines to keep the black people out. It was designed to evo…

Nobody is being forced to purchase property governed by an HOA. If you want the freedom to choose how you maintain your property, just... live somewhere else. To be clear, I'm not advocating for these schemes (and would personally never live in such a place), but the idea that it's _unreasonable_ to have a preference is silly. People are allowed to have opinions. The irony here is that your response violates the very…

I am strongly against land covenants, and support the Jeffersonian maxim that the Earth should belong in usufruct to the living. If you want to control how a property is used in perpetuity, the proper way (in my opinion) to do so is to never sell it, not to carve away slices of ownership rights at every sale.

The fact that land covenants were overwhelmingly used for racist purposes is just the largest strike against them, not the only one.

Nobody is forced to purchase HOA property, but everybody has to live somewhere, and pay for that out of their income. If you pin a map wherever some member of the household has to be at some time every weekday, and draw 30-minute isochronic lines for the commute time from each pin, and then sum all the household incomes and multiply by 25%, you can find the intersection of the isochronics, filter out housing that exceeds the rent/mortgage budget, and possibly find that everything that remains is HOA controlled, or that there is nothing left. You can draw new isochronics for longer commute times, or you can choose a property that is not perfect, by virtue of being encumbered by covenants. That "live somewhere else" mantra favors the rich over the poor, simply by virtue of having options available that are more expensive than some people can afford.

I don't believe that community standards should be codified and given the force of law. The standards should be voluntarily upheld by the community. And that requires actually building a community first. Of real people. And that is not a profitable activity for suburban cookie-cutter subdivision home-builders. So the HOA is set up beforehand by the developer, to resemble the sort of community that they imagine people with plenty of house-buying cash might like. Oh la, this vision somehow always includes grass monoculture lawns. And a few of those people can move in during phase I and set themselves up as the HOA overlords. The developer continues to advertise and sell, and then automatically bails when the lots sold cross the percentage threshold, leaving everyone to the mercy of the busybodies, whom they have invested with contractual authority.

Some of us just want to live at a location, and generally be left to our own devices, without being subjected to intrusive assholes all the time.

It's easy to say "just live somewhere else". It's not so easy to live anywhere that isn't spoiled in some way by a negative externality in one form or another. Don't like coal plant exhaust? Live somewhere else! Don't like noise pollution? Live somewhere else! Don't like the smell of rancid livestock manure? Live somewhere else! Don't like a jerk threatening you with foreclosure because you didn't pay the HOA tax and your grass is 10" high? Live somewhere else! Don't like it when people erect TV or radio antennas and paint their front doors purple against the standards of the architectural committee? Live somewhere else!

It is better (in my opinion) to prevent those negative externalities from spoiling people's enjoyment of their own property. Barring some legislated community standard that does so, the only truly effective way to keep your neighbors from screwing up your lifestyle is by effectively not having any. Move to the center of your own square mile.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#302
post #18

I grew up in Siberia. When I came here as a kid in the early 90s I was dumbfounded by lawns. Why was everyone cutting all this normal grass all the time??

City ordinances require it. My local ordinances specify that it is to minimize health hazards adjacent to public property. Tall grass allows insect and rodent populations to grow, but they are carriers of diseases that can spread to humans.

> they are carriers of diseases that can spread to humans.

However, this has nothing to do with why the city's ordinances require a properly maintained lawn.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#303
post #52

Why do lawns even factor into the equation when the reality is that industry, farms, etc. own the majority of all water usage? I live in a desert area and hate seeing lawns watered in the middle of the summer but its impact seems trivial. Agriculture is a major user of ground and surface water in the United States, accounting for approximately 80 percent of the Nation's consumptive water use and over 90 percent in ma…

> ... would be to cut out bovine meat. The somewhat ludicrous figure provided at that link - of 15,415 litres of water per kilogram of meat - is oft' cited by vegetarians and vegans, but doesn't bear scrutiny. CAFOs are undeniably bad for everyone (the land, the animals, and the consumers) and while they doubtless skew the stats, those grossly artificial environments are clearly not locking up 15 tonnes of water per…

It takes a lot of crops to feed animals, and those crops depend on enormous amounts of irrigation. The vast majority of agriculture exists for animal feed. I don’t know the exact source of that number, but I’d guess it included the water involved in growing those feed crops, not just what a cow drinks.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#304
post #240
post #25

Getting rid of our lawn and growing other stuff has been amazingly fulfilling. I have fresh produce most of the year, I've got honeybees and bumblebees and mason bees coming around. I have to do a lot less maintenance, and when I do it's more varied and interesting. Everything from fruit trees to berries, flowers to vegetables, herbs to herbal teas like chamomile. Strongly recommend looking at what will grow in your…

> Chunk out a four by four foot section and grow some sugar peas and tell me it wasn't a thousand times more rewarding than a lawn. If you have an HOA - there might be a bit of problem...

Step 1, petition the HOA to change the rules...

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#305
post #284
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "I don't want to take away the lawn from my kids" is saying "Don't care, want my lawn."

Call me crazy but I think those are very different statements. And that's just leaving out everything else I wrote about how much I care.

They are different statements that convey the same message.

It strikes me as curious to say your children running around your lawn is a reason to keep it, but you must realize your children will experience a vastly different quality of life from climate change and/or the loss of pollinators.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#306
post #305
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy but I think those are very different statements. And that's just leaving out everything else I wrote about how much I care.

They are different statements that convey the same message. It strikes me as curious to say your children running around your lawn is a reason to keep it, but you must realize your children will experience a vastly different quality of life from climate change and/or the loss of pollinators.

Not everything about humanity is so absolute.

I like giving my kids a place to play in the yard. I can express that desire and still be concerned about climate change / do things about that.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#307
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't until the mechanical lawnmower that the grass lawns became entirely useless. Grass is ruminant food, and ruminants are meat. But ruminants were never a part of the American suburban lawn the way they were in old world villages and wealthy estates. American lawns are almost completely post lawn-mower. The American suburban lawn is an explicitly visual copy by the post-war working class of the luxuries prev…

The mechanical lawn mower was invented in 1830-something, if I'm not mistaken. It would have taken a generation or so to become cheaper, at about 1850-ish for the earliest widely-available, manure-free, close-cropped grass lawns. So I'd put that as the advent of tennis and dedicated golf courses, among other lawn games. Checking Internet... mechanical lawnmower 1830 exactly, tennis invented between 1859 and 1865, and…

> So the lawn is essentially a long-enduring symbol of upper-class lifestyle.

Of course, when everyone has a perfect lawn is it doesn't serve that symbolic purpose nearly as well (other things take it's place, like exotic travel photos), and it increasingly just becomes a maintenance hassle.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between a meadow and a lawn? In relation to the article that is, obviously I could tell the difference between a meadow and a lawn. Edit: To add a bit of context here a lot of people are talking about pesticides and fertilizer and stuff like that but we don't do anything like that, we just mow it when it gets a bit long. Does that mean our lawn is technically a meadow?

I'm not aware of specific definitions, but in the context of the US, a lawn often has regular applications of fertilizer and herbicides to promote the growth of a small number (often a single) species of grass. This also requires more regular watering, as the grasses tend to be less drought resistant. A meadow, or natural lawn, or whatever you want to call it would be a mix of grass, clover, and other "weeds". It wou…

Huh, no way am I fertilising or spraying weeds out on my lawn, as far as I can tell it's your basic tall fescue grass with some clover and self seeded violets thrown in the mix, and its main function is being trampled by kids. It's lucky if I put a sprinkler on it.

I tend not to let the clover or dandelions flower though, as it attracts bees to the lawn, and barefoot children (very common in my country, and not looked down on like in the US) and bees on a lawn aren't a happy mix.

My garden is filled with heaps of flowering annuals and perennials though.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#309

Are there environmentally friendly alternatives to the traditional grass lawn if one uses their lawn for sports, BBQ, and play? Maybe just allowing grass to grow more naturally rather than using pesticides and removing weeds?

For several years, I fed my lawn an organic diet (corn gluten meal in the spring, which serves as a mild pre-emergent, then mixes of cracked corn, alfalfa, soybean meal, often in the form of horse and rabbit feed). Healthy grass, cut somewhat higher than typical will outcompete most weeds. The only weed I wasn't able to control effectively enough this way were grassy weeds (poa trivialis and poa annua). Triv patches…

PC asked for environmentally friendly alternatives to a grass lawn. Your suggestion is neither an alternative to a grass lawn, nor environmentally friendly. (An order of magnitude more pesticides, fertilizer and water are used to grow the animal feed that you are using as fertilizer than you need to would put on your lawn.

At an industrial scale, the land used to grow that "fertilizer" could be put to better use growing actual food!

(Quibble: unless the animal feed is itself certified organic, it is not an "organic diet" for your lawn in the recognised sense of the word.)

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#310
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the point of this argument, isn't this true for basically _all_ water usage?

Not really. If you put water on plants, most of it evaporates. Example: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable...

That still very much fits the 'it's not gone' definition.

Evaporated water will come down again as precipitation.

Your example (cotton) is a truly horrendous crop / textile, but that story sounds like a combination of very poor crop choices for the environment and spectacularly poor resource management.

Also, if you apply water at or beneath the ground/mulch layer, overnight, then your loss to evaporation is very low. Similarly, even suspended drip irrigation (think grapes or other trellis grown plants) versus mist or sprinkler systems.

Lawns, coming back to TFA, are almost exclusively irrigated by sprinklers, and because they're primarily residential (ie. no automated irrigation systems) they're often watered by hand during the day -- so incur a high evaporation loss.

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