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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

pedrocr.pt

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#301

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

K0SM0S wrote: post #292
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As corporate datacenters migrate to the cloud I don't think this trend is as large as SV web devs think it is, nor do I think the trend will continue indefinitely in that direction. My current corporate masters hate the cloud because they want to be in control of their own data and services. They don't want to twiddle their thumbs when somethings wrong while waiting for BigCorp to get around to fixing it. They real…

Consider both ways: even if you run 100% of your backend on-prems, a significant portion of your routes may go outside to reach roaming employees, remotes, maybe customers for some apps, etc. You likely have some Infrastructure-as-a-Service, dynamic subnetting and addressing for containers, VPNs, firewalls to cross, etc. AD and MS Server DCs in general are just not suited to this environment, where IPs may change on-…

> AD and MS Server DCs in general are just not suited to this environment

Don't know what you're talking about, they work just fine. All of our branch offices and salesmen are remote workers.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#302

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

noinsight wrote: post #246
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AD is mostly used internally on corporate networks. Why would untrusted networks be relevant?

Because the distinction of internal and external networks is eroding. Read about zero trust networking.

That's not a trend we're interested in following. You bring your own device? Fine, it's on the guest network that is treated like the internet as far as our services are concerned. This isn't rocket science.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#303

Post by gmueckl »

curt15 wrote: post #297
dependenttypes wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~ 2%. 2% of the human population are 154 million people. Sure, not everyone has a computer, so let's say 66 million people, this is the population of France. > There are many, which one would they port to? You don't actually need to support a specific desktop environment. Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc

>Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc But which versions of which libraries do you target? Every distribution has its own menagerie. There is no well-defined "Linux platform" like there is with Windows ( https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/ ).

Core libraries like glibc and Xlib are pretty well defined. You need to ship your own copy of the widget library of choice, but that isn't a big deal. You could even ship an Xlib copy and rely on the fact that there is an X server speaking the same protocol. It's all perhaps a bit messy, but it works.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#304

Post by frankohn »

jabits wrote: post #277
smacktoward wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't release products like Office for Linux Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. The whole reason they "love Linux" now is because Linux on the server gained too much market share for them to realistically oppose. They had to find a way to make money in that market that didn't involve somehow boiling an ocean of Linux machines. So they did. Windows is still o…

Vanishingly small...the Linux community are usually fan-faring increases in usage on a fractional part of a percentage increase, ~ 2%. And to me, how could they anyway, I can't find "a Linux desktop". There are many, which one would they port to? And as a shareholder, I would not want them to waste the money at this point...

> And to me, how could they anyway, I can't find "a Linux desktop". There are many, which one would they port to?

This was the very reason that prevented Google to release Google Chrome for Linux.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#305

Post by ripley12 »

excursionist wrote: post #167
ripley12 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes SQL Server so much better than, say, PostgreSQL or MariaDB? Tooling and speed. I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. If you watch the CMU DB Group's lectures on YouTube, they mention that the commercial RDBMSs have put a lot more time+research into query optimization than the open source ones (and apparently SQL Server has the best optimizer…

> Tooling and speed. That's too vague to be of any use. What tooling? What benchmarks? > I can vouch for the quality of SQL Server's tooling – SSMS is very nicely integrated with SQL Server. The fact that you like SSMS doesn't really say anything about tooling for PostgreSQL. I find the quality of PostgreSQL tooling great. There is certainly plenty of reason to believe PostgreSQL is superior to MS SQL [1]. I don't ag…

You’re a little combative, huh?

As I’m sure you’re aware, publishing benchmarks of commercial RDBMSs is usually prohibited - I’m just passing on what I’ve heard from an expert about query optimizers.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#306

Post by japanoise »

gmueckl wrote: post #300
dependenttypes wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~ 2%. 2% of the human population are 154 million people. Sure, not everyone has a computer, so let's say 66 million people, this is the population of France. > There are many, which one would they port to? You don't actually need to support a specific desktop environment. Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc

That is only true on X. With the wayland protocol, the DE also becomes the display server. And because of barndoor sized holes in the standard wayland protocol, apps will either have enormous testing effort or be limited to a DE or two.

And that's why wayland will never replace X

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#307

Post by Delmania »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #38
tw04 wrote: post #28

I'm not sure I follow what the author is getting at other than "We should hate MS and do our best to not work with them on anything!". First it was "MS breaks compatibility on purpose, screw those guys!". Now it's "sure, they're playing nice but they don't have a product in every market segment we want so they must have some nefarious master plan we haven't figure out yet!" Everytime I hear someone say "just look, th…

If Office was available for Linux, some organizations could consider deploying Linux workstations with Office since that's what most users/employees need is basically a browser (100%/users) and the Office suite (50-90%/users). Office Online is severely gimped as noted in the article and is solely to counteract adoption of Google Office.

No, they wouldn't. What kind of claim is this? Active directory, group policy, etc. If you're running an org on Google Business, sure, but most large organizations are running AD and Windows works well with that.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#309

Post by dependenttypes »

curt15 wrote: post #297
dependenttypes wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~ 2%. 2% of the human population are 154 million people. Sure, not everyone has a computer, so let's say 66 million people, this is the population of France. > There are many, which one would they port to? You don't actually need to support a specific desktop environment. Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc

>Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc But which versions of which libraries do you target? Every distribution has its own menagerie. There is no well-defined "Linux platform" like there is with Windows ( https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/ ).

Just static link? Or do what windows software does, so ship dynamic libraries with your application. I do not see the issue.

> There is no well-defined "Linux platform"

There actually is! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#310

Post by dependenttypes »

gmueckl wrote: post #300
dependenttypes wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~ 2%. 2% of the human population are 154 million people. Sure, not everyone has a computer, so let's say 66 million people, this is the population of France. > There are many, which one would they port to? You don't actually need to support a specific desktop environment. Any UI program that you write will work just fine on KDE, GNOME, DWM, etc

That is only true on X. With the wayland protocol, the DE also becomes the display server. And because of barndoor sized holes in the standard wayland protocol, apps will either have enormous testing effort or be limited to a DE or two.

Most programs use existing libraries like SDL, GTK, QT, etc, which handle wayland integration on their part.
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